Future of Zcash dev funding — megathread / everything in one place

The reason I am concerned it because when I was one of the first to post a proposal I got some amazing feedback from Nathan, str4d and others.

Then I posted about the extension and I got some excellent points raised by zooko, especially regarding downstream impact. (But no official word from the ECC - Nathan) This feedback made my proposals drastically change in spirit and format.

even more info has come to light and I will need to adjust them again. (Which is cool) it is just it seemed the ECC was all in on proposals then it just sort of stopped.

just read my edits and the thread to see how well it worked. - [ZIP 1002] FINAL: ZIP Proposal - Genuine Protocol opt-in/out donation feature updated 02/sept

I am worried about running out of time if I have to make a new proposal because one of my old ones is incompatible with the new discussion. the drafts have to be in 5 days or so after the feedback on the 26th. (for example the proposal I linked will fall at the first hurdle, because it relies on the ZF to give money to the ECC. So I might need to put in a new proposal. I am still working on the wording.)

That is my concern, I wont have time to get a new draft in, if it requires a new proposal. because then that would need discussion… I am probably worrying about nothing.

Is there anyway you can make a list of things that cannot be addressed and in what manner? It must be already defined in US law? im from the UK so I can guess, but it would be helpful if you could either make a summary, or point me to the legal documents you are bound by, so I can get an idea myself. It could help alleviate a lot of frustration from the community, especially for the non Americans.

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This is an issue for a lot of not native English speakers.
I try to use short sentences to make it easier to translate.
We have to rely on believing the poster is posting in good faith and it is a failing in translation.

Please keep posting. I do read them and I can make sense of what you are trying to get across. I believe others can too.

You have just given me an idea. I will put a proposal to the foundation (who run the forums). I will @ you in the proposal.

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We are a legally compliant entity that builds open source software as part of an ecosystem of developers. We also support that software, educate various parties on how it works, and drive the adoption of the software within 3rd party software such wallets, exchanges, etc. We also provide education on topics related to privacy, encryption and implications for its use on people, businesses and governments. We have no ability or authority to do anything with Zcash fiat value. Additionally we occasionally sign NDAs and keep 3rd party information private, in good faith, unless they agree to let us make it public or they make it public.

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Blocktown Capital made a proposal: https://medium.com/blocktown/proposal-for-the-zcash-2020-network-upgrade-fcd320a5d6f5

Perhaps more accurately a position statement? There’s no mention of the ZIP process. I’m not sure whether it’d be appropriate for me to ask Blocktown Capital for clarification ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I did RT from the Foundation account, just to get the news out there, but I’m already worried about that being interpreted as endorsement. I don’t want people to think that I’m recruiting for a particular position, but I do want to know whether to put this proposal (?) on the list in the top post.

Edit: See comment below, facepalming at myself right now.

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I added @Autotunafish’s new proposal to the list. Here’s a link for anyone who hasn’t seen it: Dev fund proposal: fixed 20%, opt in/out measure, minimal disrupt - #29 by ChileBob

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Mea culpa, I was entirely wrong about all of that. I’ll leave my comment up for posterity’s sake. Here’s Blocktown Capital’s post: Proposal for the Zcash 2020 Network Upgrade

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@sonya and chance you can add this proposal as well to the list of all proposals:

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Is the ECC or the ZF working, has been or will be working on their own ZIP/ZIPS targeting the development fund?

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No, i asked several times for this and it wa allways commented that it should be a community decision to make proposals. At least that’s why i got out of the answers than back, i could be wrong of course.

Will any ZIPS targeting the development fund be accepted which haven’t been extensively discussed on this forum?

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ZF has not, although it’s still a possibility. We’d prefer to work with proposals originated by the community.

Anyone can submit to the ZIP process, and any draft ZIP submitted by August 31 will be eligible for NU4, in theory. We’ll evaluate proposals on their specific merits regardless of where they came from.

That said, ZF’s bet is that proposals workshopped by the community will be stronger than others. Personally, I’ve been impressed by the thoughtfulness and creativity that y’all have brought to the table.

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Hi,

yes and no. The ECC and ZF as organisations have not put things forward directly for community feedback via the zip process. The ECC did recuse themselves from the proposals but not the conversation.

Nathan explains more here, and also explains that NU4 funding deadline is a little bit more flexible (just get something in for the 31st. I would be happy to help if you have an idea you want to put forward.)

The Foundation has come out with statements on what proposals they will and wont support. The ECC pointed out that the Foundation is not in a place to veto suggestions for this selection process, 2 - 2 will not be in place for “dev fund” selection (please correct me if that is wrong) but should be for NU4. EDIT: I have been corrected, whilst not legally binding, its binding. see Sonya’s post here - Future of Zcash dev funding — megathread / everything in one place - #293 by sonya

The ECC has pledged to try to get first round feedback for the proposals before the 31st deadline so we should know where we stand and can write better proposals and see which matches up and what doesn’t, etc.

The foundation as an entity hasnt made proposals, but its members have. This is a really positive move imo.

As for proposals, this one sprung to mind. It is by @amiller he is part of the foundation. So this is not a direct proposal by the foundation, it is them engaging in the topic - this is amillers personal opinion not a proposal by the foundation - so it does not directly help with your question.

I am not sure if the foundation as an entity should put proposals forward, im 50/50 on the idea. They have given a list of what is acceptable to them and the ECC said it would implement whatever the community decides - I am not sure which community and how they come to a decision.

I think it will take the form of "the community has given these propsals, we think these work, together, this needs too much to change, etc. idk it is all pretty new to all of us and the information changes as new questions arise and are answered. I will edit this and put in the definitive statement on what the Foundation will and wont support. (there are 3 i need to see which is the latest, heh)

Really good question. I dont think so, see nathans post I linked earlier in this thread and the ECC committing to do what the community wants. I dont think we get to make the decision I think we get to chose what decisions they can make - via submitting zips.

I hope this helps.

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ECC has already committed to the 2-of-2 multisig model for the ZIP process, which applies to everything in NU4, including dev-fund proposals. Legally the Foundation does not have a veto, but ECC would be going back on its word, which would be a huge reputational blow.

More depth here: Zcash Governance: A Step Toward Decentralization - zcash foundation

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Thoughts from James Prestwich: Zcash Dev Fund Opinions - Google Docs

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2 posts were split to a new topic: James Prestwich thoughts on a Dev Fund

Hence my ZIP proposal for a decentralized community-driven funding mechanism. Anything that “guarantees” funding using a block reward will be harmful for the community’s cohesion, in my opinion.

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Can we please move the copy of James Prestwich’s post, and the presumably forthcoming discussion of it, to a separate new topic?

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Thx for the suggestion but i think James Prestwich’s view and paper fits perfectly into the megathread / everything in one place even as a full text.

This thread allready has 287 posts and it shouldn’t really lack exactly James Prestwich’s view which i personally see as a very good written opinion around the new dev fund discussion.

Even it’s a long text i hope you see that the community might be interested in his/this opinion and that all opinions should be available on the forum, enough they are on-topic and at least in my opinion, this is absolutly on-topic. Of course the moderation can decide something different.

Link to the full text on the Zcash forum after the text was (re-)moved into a seperate thread:

@tromer The giant wall of text (entire article) has been moved to a new thread to discuss further.

The links Sonya posted prior will remain for users to read/download if they choose.

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Institutional trading tools provider TradeBlock estimate that commercial Zcash miners are experiencing decreased profitability. … Debates among the Zcash community regarding how the block reward will be split after the next network upgrade in October 2020 has been identified as a potential driver of the ZEC price underperformance.