Even furthur than that, if it’s a real ALL IN, it would mean sacrificing personal gain, lowering wages, getting smaller offices or working strictly by remote, no more travel expenses, no lunch/dinner expenses, selling all stocks and invetory owned by the company. ALL IN is MAKE OR BREAK. All in has nothing to do with “if it doesn’t work out we will be searching other opportunitys/income” LOL.
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I pay attention to this in every post, the company’s profit comes first, the asset in the form of a coin is not important to them, you can throw it into the fund with all the problems and go the other way yourself, ECC does not care about zec, they get the effect just like company. And of course money is money is money. Stop the reward, give the rest to the fund, this will be enough for a long time, but no, they want to continue to work on the coin, and in the bottom line we will soon hear about the lack of funding and new problems.
Building on our original forum post on this matter, we at Placeholder are close to finalizing a ZIP draft that takes a broadly similar approach to what you’ve described.
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Hi community. I just posted a quick update from ECC on Twitter and posting the link here in case you don’t follow us there or missed it. https://twitter.com/ElectricCoinCo/status/1160282706661392384
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No need to click it, not much to read there other than they are still working on it:
We have been carefully reviewing and considering the balanced and principled
@ZcashFoundation Guidance on DevFund Proposals released this week. We plan to publicly comment on it in the very near future.
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Think its fair they get some time to think it through, changing to a non-profit is a big ask & will impact many things. Hope they agree, it would bring an end to all sorts of criticism.
Maybe Netflix will get Anthony Hopkins & Jodie Foster to make a movie about it, could be called ‘Silence Of The Trolls’.
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ECC will not become a non-profit organization, this requirement is not feasible.
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I must say I love your spirit Bob. I’m being naive and poking a lot lately, I do thoo, have strong feeling that things won’t go as most wish it to be.
The thing that bothers me the most is not having a real roadmap of features ahead of us, only half promises that will put us in the same situation in 4-8 years. The features needed are many, and the the money received already should’ve been more than enough for developing some utility for end users. ECC concentrated too many resources that we should be grateful for, but nobody asked (regulation and goverment chit chat). I fully understand the need for such work and I know it goes hand in hand with adoption BUT, I personally feel it’s waaaay to early to even give a F. Making zcash scalable, pos, smart contractable, tokenizable and actually create an enviroment that can benefit zeroknowledge other than privacy would create so many useful cases for businesses and personal use that regulation would bang at “our” doors, not the other way around.
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These are interesting times. ECC already said its ‘up to the community’ & the non-profit suggestion has quickly gathered support, it’ll be very awkward for them to say no.
Think we’ll end up with a re-mix of ideas from the leading proposals, a compromise of sorts to keep things going but it wont be the status-quo. The roadmap bothers me, funding should be connected to deliverable features & if features are not known/specified its wrong to guess how much it’ll cost.
Anyway, we’re in for a fun week methinks.
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Words are spoken easy, action is a bit more difficult in most cases.
My guess is that they won’t convert to a non-profit now , but will offer it as in option within 2020-2028 and my next guess is that there will be a lot of IF’s. For example if funding is granted for more than 8 years, IF it’s 20% and such …
that’s what i argued months ago that bevor even a funding talk/discussion takes place there must be a road map with what these funds are used for. These are questions that have been raised, just nobody cared, neither the forum community here, nor anybody else. Just some days bevor the proposal deadlines it gets actual. You both are regulars here, where have you been the last months, lol. 
Dont worry Alex, your posts do get read but not always replied to 
I know, that’s why i didn’t wrote “nobody reads” but “nobody cares” 
A hallmark of this community has been its integrity, thoughtfulness and respect for the dignity of every person. These things are core to why I chose to pursue work on this project and with this team. I’m sorry to see this community devolve into what I’ve seen in this forum and this kind of response. @johnwisdom (and @boxalex by extension) - I am ok to take criticism and a challenge of ideas, but I am unwilling accept that this kind of response reflects the spirit of this project.
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Maybe it’s time to come together and analyse why so many ZEC believer, fans, regulars, supporters, or just normal people react that way? Maybe think about what triggers our posts and what the reasons are that especially the ECC gets less and less support? Ever thought about what the reason is that this is nearly a ghost forum lately?
Sorry Josh but we didn’t got born with these feelings and vision we have right now. A lot of things trigger the expression the negative expressions you see on this forum, reddit, twitter and so on.
It’s very easy to give the people that express cricicism a label and stamp and move on and cuddle the yes-man. Actually in the current situation where everything thing is about a new dev fund it doesn’t look good either when people that express their negative feelings and adress what they think are flaws get some kind of discredited for that.
I’am daily, 24x7, thinking at least 2-3 hours daily making my heading and thinking about Zcash, for FREE actually. This for sure accounts as well for others. I really get more and more the impression that you guys & girls have no idea how your actions often look and come across from outside.
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Reposting this part of Anton1’s post that got flagged for some reason, i guess because the other part wasn’t written too good because of his not to good non-native English knowledge.
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Thank you, I don’t speak English, so by the way I can’t participate in discussions in all ways except written language, this restriction also applies to all kinds of online conferences, they are only for those who speak English.
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I don’t think its the language barrier that got his post flagged, but its content.
Hi all, apologies for my absence. I’ve been at Defcon since Thursday, and unfortunately too busy to keep up with posts here.
As soon as I can, I will dig through all these questions in detail, and either address them myself or loop in others.
I want to add a note in support of @joshs, maybe halfway as a moderator but mostly as a person.
You all know that I think criticism is valuable, and that skeptics have something to offer to any project. But it’s important for there to be mutual respect — even empathy. Otherwise the conversation becomes destructive.
Please be kind. Assume good faith. Remember that everyone reading your words is a human being who cares deeply about Zcash flourishing.
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To understand, by what basic criteria is the work done evaluated as good or bad, the introduction on the exchanges is good, and if then zec is removed from these exchanges, what conclusions will the fund draw in the future? Whether it will be regarded as neutral or as a bad signal. If finances are spent on an event from which absolutely nothing is obtained for the future, other than meeting people and talking that could be completely free in a video conference, how will the financial analysis of the situation go?
Because all dissatisfaction comes from the feeling that the project is going the wrong way, which will bring success to the team and financial stability to the community, because whatever you say about Internet money, you get paid in real money, or everyone will agree to pay in zcash, I I think that after making such a decision and provided that the salary is fixed for at least 1 year, with subsequent indexation of no more than 10% per year, not many people will remain on staff for 2 years, although the price per coin will not be important in the future.
Answers are important for making a proposal or evaluating the current ones.
For example: an engineer comes to a salary in xxx zec (according to the staff list, all engineers receive the same regardless of the course), at the moment the course is $ 250 (August 2017), this salary remains with him until the current moment (with an indexation condition of 10% every year ) at the moment he will receive in zec his initial salary + 20% (a little more) but in dollars the amount will decrease by 5 times, can you keep the staff and strengthen it? I remind you, the course is not important, you say. Explain the current position of the fund, if possible from the current view.
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devs can be blamed on critical bugs found and/or if protocol will be hacked. they also can be blamed on non-delivery of promised feautres in time or at all, lagging the roadmap, product performance issues etc.
company can be blamed for underperforming in non-development related activities such as bad/wrong PR, explicitly blowin off collaborations with other counterparties, non-disclosures of significant problems etc.
but to blame them of not cutting off their budget according just to the price action is a bit petty. price of coin is decided by market, not by them. and it is decided not only on a merit of technicals. its crypto ffs. it can go 10>1000>10>1000. even a pow coin. exchanges and regulators may decide whatever they want and this can impact price both ways. company can put efforts, but they are not imperative. i’m not trying to overdefend ecc, but i havent seen nowhere in sites/prospects of zcash/ecc any obligations to pump-it/plunge protect it. i personally think that they could perform better, position their efforts better. i think it would have better picture if questions about hard salary wouldnt be raised, because people like that everything is funded from somewhere but not their pocket. people prefer hidden taxes rather then obvious one. especially in crypto sphere.
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