Zooko suggest. Zooko != Zcash. He doesn’t get to make the “decision” supposedly, although I get the impression you would love that. You want ASIC, that’s fine…SIA has always been ASIC friendly…have at it. Zcash from the start was touted as being ASIC resistant. We aren’t being unreasonable in expecting that to be held fast now, no reason to discuss, no reason to debate, no reason to compromise. That was a stated purpose. If the team wasn’t going to actually stand firm on this principle then they should not have said it to begin with.
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I don’t have intention to purchace ASICs, but let’s keep this thread on topic guys.
If you want to fight about ASICs, there is another thread for that ^.^
I’m a newbie and love this current community but here’s my simple opinion.
Why buy ASICs if in the end you’ll be making about same amount of money we’re doing right now.
Unless you want to give power to bitmain I guess.
Cheers.
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Bitmain made $4bn in profit last year.
Google Bitcoin Mining Firm Bitmain Made $3 to $4 Billion in 2017 Profits
Who do you think has the largest influence when they sell their Zcash? A GPU miner or group of GPU miners that have mined tens of thousands of dollars of Zcash or Bitmain that sold billions?
Clearly the ASICS manufacturers, when they sell billions of dollars a year in money can have a huge downward effect on the price of Zcash and once they are in control the Zcash market, they will be able to bring it down, they can collapse prices if the creators of Zcash doesn’t do what those ASIC miners want them to do.
There’s an entry level requirement to ASICS, you need to take out a lot of money to start and to continue and you can’t do it your home because of the noise. So people need to set it up in a garage or warehouse somewhere, meanwhile with GPU mining, people that love computers, that do spread the word of Zcash verbally and on the Internet, they continue to make it more popular, continue to get more investors, they are the ones that do the most for the networking, through word of mouth, they increase the popularity of the coin. They tweet. They talk to their friends. They are excited about their meager gains, their coin, compare that to Bitmain that just dumps coins to pay for the next manufacturing phase. The most damage to the price can be done only by big dumpers, big traders, big trading volumes and watch what will happen once Zcash is in the hands of Bitmain.
So the buying and selling of Zcash by GPU miners - by small transactions, doesn’t put as much downward pressure as one massive ASICS miner selling his Zcash at a peak - these GPU manufacturers are mining even when others have stopped mining and is unprofitable, because mining costs are far cheaper in China than anywhere else in the 200 countries of the world. So Bitmain that made over $2billion dollars. Watch mining become unprofitable and watch them mine while others are not mining. Watch them take over Zcash.
Remember the Chinese saying: beware of what you wish for you might get it.
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Traders have not contributed one ZEC to the Foundation. You don’t have a dog in this fight. When you mine, then you can understand the point of view of the miners, the damage ASIC mining will bring in the form of centralization and the potential manipulation of the coin by one dubious manufacture of the hardware - the potential for exploitation is palpable, and no one is even considering the potential for a violent, physical attack on this possible centralized mining network.
Traders do nothing for ZEC except prevent a stable value of the coin. Folks like you game the value every day. That keeps it from being nothing more than a speculation and much less of what it is intended to be, and that’s a digital means of value transfer. No one will exchange goods as services for ZEC as long as it’s one price today and either 10% more or less tomorrow.
Really, man, your view on trading is sound, but you’re not adding to the ASIC argument.
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traders are liquidity providers. you clearly don’t have a deep understanding of how the complete industry works. i do understand mining, because i used to mine before i figured out i can make a lot more with trading. you wouldn’t have a market if not for us. i’m trying to relay what other traders that are reading this stuff are thinking, because i know what they’re thinking. we don’t have a lot of traders, and we want to attract more, right? if you had a choice would you rather have more traders or miners joining zcash.
i’m not trying to derail this thread, and i’ve said my piece. good luck!
Traders game the price. Argue however you want that you’re a benefit (the universe of traders), but the facts are simple: Speculative trading creates wild and unstable price fluctuations which discourages the consuming public from using crypto as a reliable means of value transfer for goods and services.
You want to think you benefit the system, by all means, go think that! Let’s just both agree - all of us - that we want to see ZEC go to the Moon 
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Its funny that people thing they can beat the house (Bitmain) who holds all the rules and control everuthing…ones you allow them there is no turn back.
Like look LTC…LTC price went 2.5 times in just days…but people who had ASIC (other then BItmain) had nothing from it…network hash rate in january rised from 40 to 100Thash in just few days…how is that even possible …when price rise Bitmain just switch in another gear and all people who were not bitmain even with price rise had 0 money more …so it not question could bitmain have 51%…they can have 99% off network hash rate whenever they want on every ASIC coin
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What does GPU or asic has to do with network security? Mines have the power. Miners have nill. Run a full node and you also have the power. Yes bitmain is sleezy but so are amd Nvidia and retailers making a killing for selling overpriced GPUs that take a year to roi. I’ll enjoy watching Newegg having GPUs for breakfast.
RPG,
<High level simple explanation, yes I’m glossing a LOT of things>
Transactions are recorded in the block that is mined, our hash power and the difficulty of the solution for the impending block provides the security for the network. The miner or pool that wins the block (comes up with the solution) mints the 12.5 ZEC that is created, validates the transactions for that round, records them in the block which is now on the block chain and collects the fees. Miners are very integral for the security of the network. Full nodes also play a role, but neither (in PoW) by themselves can secure the network. Full nodes validate, and revalidate new and previous blocks (when syncing) and provide consensus that each transaction is valid (by multiple sources). That’s like a 10,000 foot view of it all though…there is a lot more to it really but I don’t fully understand all the moving pieces myself. I do however get the concept of it and how it is supposed to work.
hold up …are you telling me everybody doesn’t love, and value traders??? that’s impossible, everybody loves traders!
edit to stay on topic: i won’t be buying an ASIC from bitmain to play with.
FWIW, I did buy one Friday night. I believe at least some of the equihash coins will choose to roll with it.
Pros for our family: combined with our other miners (2 rigs, 1x A3, 1x S9 on the way), I should be able to quit my job at the end of June or July to stay home with my autistic child
Cons for our family: they’re freaking loud. We have the A3 in a bedroom used as a library at the end of the house. I may move all of them in there using Ethernet switches/cables and appropriate extension cables so that I can put a small portable AC in there.
Pros (general): it may increase name recognition for the coin as well as provide stability for the coin
Cons (general): a for BM is more for the Chinese government, but then again, since all GPUs are made there anyway it may not make much difference. I hate that our $ is supporting a communist oligarchy that is becoming more controlling, and is increasing censorship and suppression of their people.
Bottom line for me: Even if ZEC forks, SOMEBODY is going to make/leave an equihash coin to mine on ASIC now. And I’m trying to do whatever I can legally to be with my child.
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I bought one. I’m not extra greedy (compared to anyone else) and don’t consider it as supporting Bitmain - I would have bought from any ASIC manufacturer.
This is just a case of new hardware disrupting slower hashing hardware. Zcash miners that plan to continue have to either adapt or switch coins.
TBH centralized mining pools are a much larger issue than ASICs (Flypool > 51%).
Also, I recognize that having a business that relies on people using GPUs does also put you in a situation where you should be anti-ASIC, and that is understandable. It’s not a great situation for anyone.
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I see nothing wrong with doing this as long as you are fully aware of the risks involved. Obviously you are, you have other ASIC as well. Whether to buy one or not, is a personal decision, nobody has a right to jump on you for doing so, and you would have no right to complain if the investment went sour, as long as the device wasn’t being misrepresented in capability.
Regardless of the outcome, I wish you to at least break even, and turn a profit regardless.
I have. Wish me luck
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I wish you well, hopefully you don’t end up upside down on it.
Are you currently mining Zcash with GPU?
Never stopped. I’ve made my position pretty clear I think across a number of threads that I am a miner, started as CPU, moved to GPU. I do however put hash power against other projects from time to time that I find interesting. Some are still around and still look promising.
Ok now I understand. I can tell from your words you sound biased and angry. Wellcome to the free market.