I’m sure you do…it’s a lovely echo chamber where everyone says and thinks exactly the same thing.
If we had a constant forking or a way for the algo to change every 3-6 months, it would not be cost effective for them to make new ASIC designs everytime. Its much easier to release a code update then to build specialzed hardware. We would win that fight if we wanted to.
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Personally, if you put me in a bucket, I am anti-ASIC and own several GPU rigs dedicated to ZEC. However, I am still considering ordering 1 or 2 Z9s for when I move my GPUs to another currency. I run a business and believe that the ASICs will likely be a profitable investment even if a fork does happen (which I hope does for other reasons not entirely related to owning mining rigs).
However, my 1 or 2 ASICs will not be anywhere close to the hashrate of my combined GPU miners. I will be removing about 34k hashrate and bringing in about 20k with the new ASICs.
My personal aversion to Bitmain because of the things they pulled in the past (Antbleed anyone?) and that’s the main reason I am still on the fence about it.
In regards to AntBleed, it’s hard to understand the motivation behind that vulnerability. The real question is was it a feature with a bad design, a kill switch, or a Chinese Government directed insertion. Yes I know…conspiracy theory talk…but it “can” happen. Don’t be overly harsh on Bitmain in those situations, they may not have had a choice in the matter…in which case they left it as obvious as they could so it would get “caught” so they could legitimately “fix” it.
You nailed it on the head there with those “conspiracy theories”. It’s an easy one to focus on as a bad business move, but not the only thing that makes me uneasy.
You touched on one of them. I an very uneasy when dealing with China centrist businesses. At the end of the day, there is nothing to stop the Chinese government from forcing their will on Bitmain.
“But isn’t AMD and nVidia built in china?” Sure? Let’s say they are (don’t actually know), but they are multi-national corporations who adhere to the laws and regulations of the countries they have a presence in, including the U.S. (which Bitmain core company does not, though they just launched a subsidiary recently in the states).
the other big one is their habit of running their ASIC miners on the network before publicly disclosing that they are even working on them (let alone selling them to the rest of the market). While I am not aware of any “smoking gun” evidence of this, there has been some strong evidence that it is happening based on the dates they announce falling very close to the dates that speculation starts getting real strong (also, the Monero fork cutting half the hashrate out before the ASICs even launched was a bit of a “hand in the cookie jar” moment).
Again, still a strong likelihood that i will order 1 or 2 ASICs.
Good points but you are using too many hypotheticals. The fact of the matter is that none of these things are happening. nVidia doesn’t have an ASIC. The next GPUs won’t have ASIC efficiencies. There is only 1 manufacturer of ASICs in the market. That 1 manufacturer has a history of only selling what they have been using for extended periods and/or need to unload for $ in fear of the market making them obsolete fairly soon.
With these facts on the table, his concerns are valid.
I haven’t seen anything regarding “production numbers” of units that will be available in June to ship (as they have done in the past with things like Dash). This makes me think they don’t have a production shipment coming in to sell, but that they will be selling the stock they are currently already mining with. Probably a safe bet that nothing will change for them before the June 20th date. Worse case scenario, they will be receiving a shipment up newer upgraded mining ASICs at that point and selling off the old stuff.
Just to answer the one part. Both AMD and Nvidia are indeed multinational, but both have their Corporate HQ in Santa Clara, California.
Do you live in the fourties or something? Have you not noticed that China is THE manufacturer? You are worried about Chinese government but not your own? Lol.
I don’t know about Tonic, but I keep a wary eye on any government, even my own. The problem with governments isn’t just their policies…but people in power…at any level…are always tempted to abuse it. You see this play out in the news every day. But at the state actor level (China) it is a very valid concern, they are known to control, filter, and deny anything coming in or out of the country. It would be all to easy for China to force a company like Bitmain to “brick” miners coming from a specific countries IP blocks because they didn’t like a trade decision, foreign policy, etc. Don’t fool yourself into believing that it would never happen.
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What this guys said! Ah-men brotha! Glory hallelujah!
While it could happen in the U.S., it is just far less likely (at least soon) and there would be nothing sudden or secretive about it. There would be all sorts of legal and public relation uproar. This is actually the positive side of special interest groups is watching for things like this that might hurt their companies (even by reputation).
Think Apple when the FBI wanted to break into the iPhone of those two that shot up their work place in California. In China, it would have been a quiet “yes sir”.
I think we have a wrong approach. Bitmain can control 51%, just like other manufacturers like nvidia and amd.
I think there should be another asic manufacturer as strong as bitmain, at least.
For me that I’m with gpu, I can not compete with big gpu farms. With asic this won’t change. I also think that asic is the future, just as more powerful gpus come out, these chips come out that spend less energy and cost less.
To support the currency, provided that the currency is in accordance with the asic, these machines accelerate the process and actual use of these currencies. Asic is not only for people who want to earn money, since in 2 months it will be the same as having a rig with 6gpus in profits. (maybe something more for the reduced cost of electricity)
From the purely technical perspective ASIC is not the problem. It is how you say a lack of another option other than Bitmain. There is always going to be “big fish” in mining. What worries me is in the disproportionate world that ASIC brings, with Bitmain as the sole source, the pond gets smaller, and the “big fish” get fewer, and much larger.
Then we are in agree, the problem is not asic, it is not even bitmain.
I don’t know why there aren’t other companies that are as good in make asic as bitmain, or even the ecosystem of the currency, like the case of sia with the obelisk asic.
I think that as part of the zcash ecosystem, we have to lobby for manufacturers to compete with bitmain
You will be hard pressed for that to happen as long as they enjoy such an advantage as being in a country that doesn’t necessarily play by the same business rules as other countries. I think that is the biggest issue with competition. The playing field isn’t level, and it is slanted in Bitmains favor.
they can make slightly less efficient asic that are configurable to changes, you cannot win “the fight” because there are people with tens of billions of dollars and years of vertical and horizontal integration that will literally beat the snot out of you at every turn. to believe otherwise is naive
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How it comes the topic states
“How many of you have already purchased an ASIC or are planning to?”
and the whole topic is spammed by unrelated stuff and none is related to the topic title?
Seriously, this here is no more being a normal way neither to discuss nor debatting.
Totally off topic claims, accusations, offends are the upperhand now.
I’am asking serously that the mods step in and begin to delete, ban whatever that normal on topic discussion is reinstated. Since than it’s not even worth writing whatever …
But ??? did you not just do the very thing you are complaining about? And if you are going to ask the mods to step in, you should have @ flagged their names so that they would be notified…
and to stay on topic, I purchased 5 and will purchase another 10 in june
like that is going to change something. Mods are being very slow and should start banning (for 24 hours or more) many individuals…
Now you know that only AL888 gets banned on these forums! LOL
Actually no, i stay on topic, i did not spam any other topis and posted my thoughts about asics/gpu’s only in these threads that are dedicated for just that.
And you won’t find a post where i called someone "idiot, dumb, nazi, agent, nvidia employee, nvidia spy, nvidia promoter, paid nvidia guy, brainless, and about 20 other offendings i had to face until now.
Second, you won’t find any post of mine in a topic that isn’t related to that what i posted. I think it’s critical to stay ontopic in a forum to get the best out of a discussion evne if there is huge disagreement.
With this said i can only answer you: NO, i did not do the same!