Thanks, I mentioned yw because when I used to say that nothing was working, some people would reply that yw did. The point is that NU-5 nearly broke everything besides zcashd. And then ZIP-317 did it again.
In any case, there is the notion that if the full nodes and the miners operate, it is fine.
IMO, most users should not be affected by a network upgrade unless there is a clear benefit. After 1.5 years, less than 1% of the circulation is in the Orchard pool. It’s hard to see it as a success.
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On this we agree, but I think its probably better all this stuff happened now vs at the top of the market. Either way, @ZecHub is prepared to help push forward into 2024, which IMHO, is looking promising.
I’m thinking NU6 will be smoother as we learn from mistakes.
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Yes. The problem is not education. Education comes far down the line after Communication & Narrative. Zcash doesn’t have a logical narrative, and because so it continues to be very hard to communicate for/ about.
So many other topics come to mind, beyond just the example of poor narrative and communication around the NU5 efforts and deliverables. Education should be an after-thought until this network size and value are about another 1,000% larger.
Let’s have an honest discussion. Suppose that I’m the next potential new Zcash user/ investor. I call up the page on Crypto.com and this is what I see (after having just done the same with Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Monero). What sort of narrative makes this picture palatable?
These potential new users don’t need educated.
They need a narrative that sets up a reason: Why Zcash?
Zcash is a battle tested Layer 1 protocol/ network
Zcash has a native coin called ZEC, which has a supply hard cap like Bitcoin
ZEC are a speculative investment, which like many coins before it might provide outsized returns
ZEC can be taken into fully encrypted, private self-custody using a variety of wallets
The Zcash ecosystem is cultivated by 2-3 large, skillful, community funded organizations
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Let’s add to that though that Zcash is not easy to use, has a confusing set of terminology and is not flexible in its use cases. All of the good technical pieces mean nothing if the typical user struggles (or based on what I’m reading, even the technically-savvy users struggle).
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https://x.com/nivertech/status/140866103437041664?s=20
I’d argue few appreciated Bitcoin when it was cheap. Fewer appreciate Zcash now.
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A fair source for opptimism, but I’d ground it in a different reality. Young Bitcoin commanded a practical 1:1 branding perception with “cryptocurrency” which in the decade that followed, it has retained.
Zcash as it is today cannot claim an equivalent sort of ubiquity with “cryptocurrency” at its best, Zcash is a high potential “privacy coin” (but sadly we don’t even lead that brand perception contest… XMR is far and exceedingly in the 1:1 role today).
What I really like about your thinking is that it is consistent to my assertion about Zcash narrative. We’ve got to be honest with ourselves, honest with ZEC holders, and honest with potential new ZEC holders. Zcash is a speculative network/ asset with the possibility for outsized returns!
That preposition is at odds with the trivial idea that people today, or people in the future, ought to be primarily digesting Zcash/ ZEC as a quirky technology for purchasing cups of coffee with. Imagine how degrading it is, that we build a world-class technology protocol via trustless zero-knowledge proofs, yet all we can ponder to exercise with it are trivial commercial transactions?
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If buying cups of coffee with ZEC is a supposedly legitimate use case to grow the currency, Zcash is in trouble. What’s the point of privacy currency for buying coffee in a coffee shop where privacy is already out the window the moment you walk into the store?
This is how Zooko spends all of his dev fund money. Without that use-case, he would’t have anything to spend it on as we know Whole Foods does not accept Zcash.
Exactly. marketing zec as money to use as a private fiat does nothing more than possibly get someone to try zcash and then piss them off because they lose money. On top of that, it’s just hard to use, the wallets don’t sync well (i’m always wondering have i lost my coins)…bottom line is zec is not ready for widespread marketing. we need privacey based stablecoins to realize the dream of privacey for all. Then we could have a private coin for savings and a private coin for spending. Not least of which we would need the throughput to handle the volume which we don’t have currently. It’s just simply too slow.
ZEC primary use case is holding; people who have the ability financially to handle the volatility. It’s private gold. It looks more like a commodity than money as we sit here today. sure people can use commodities as money. But 99.999% don’t. (note something like 50,000 retailers do accept zec for payments today in the USA via the Spedn app; chipotle, and many more…i don’t think many people use zec).
Privacey stablecoins is the massive use case that is still there. This would be a solid foundation that could give zec utility as a collateral and staking coin.
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Agreed, a private stablecoin should be the current north star for zcash development. There are a couple of precursory goals that have to be met first though, namely PoS and secure bridging technology.
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There is a project that does that through zkp and venmo.
What project?
I believe its Paxos…But everything is going digital and there will be many projects and companies as trillions and trillions are brought onto the blockchain(s). All currency, investments, assets, will be tokenized with the easy ones first…
Here is a good quote that I believe captures our problem with marketing.
[Warren Buffett] is known for his quirky quotes on a diverse array of subjects. And almost every time, these humorous quotes are a disguise for his startling wisdom which has given many great much-needed epiphanies. It’s no wonder that the likes of Jeff Bezos and [Bill Gates] look up to him and quote him time and again for inspiration.
One such quote is particularly relevant to all the marketers and advertisers out there.
“You can hold a rock concert and that’s OK. You can hold a ballet and that’s OK. But don’t hold a rock concert and advertise it as a ballet.”
These three lines are quite pithy. But they carry the chicken soup of marketing wisdom which can solve a major clog in your advertising.
Crystal clear.
You see, a product is not a conglomeration of its features but a combination of its end values. You should always be pristinely clear and upfront with what you offer. When you optimize the communication to define exactly what your product does, you will attract the right kind of customers who will happily pay top dollar to get your product.
But if you ever feel that you need to appeal to a broader audience and in an act of desperation, you tamper with the perceived benefits to appeal to a larger demographic of people, you will end up with unhappy customers. Customers will feel cheated and unsatisfied with the end value which the product gives.
It’s okay to appeal to a niche audience and win them over successfully by amplifying your product’s benefits in conjunction to their expectations and fitting their needs. You’ll end up with consumers who expected something and got exactly that in return. In that case, you even have the chance to over-deliver on that promise.
A marketing catastrophe.
When you lure others into believing that a product will fulfill their expectations and it doesn’t you end up with a marketing catastrophe. Your dollars will be wasted to please an audience to believe in something which is not true about your product. More often then not you will end up having unhappy customers who will evangelize against any further presence of your product in the market. In short, your product will go south very quickly.
So, listen to the Oracle of Omaha on his smart marketing advice. And use the key to achieve happy customers and a sustainable business.
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Specifically, what issue do you see with the marketing?
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The short answer is ZEC is not a private fiat currency alternative. So, trying to get people to believe ts a fiat alternative will cause them to lose faith in ZEC. We have many unhappy customers because ZEC is not doing what people expect from a fiat alternative currency.
We are holding a rock concert (high vol asset) and advertising it as a ballet (stable fiat).
We should be telling the market we have this amazing privacy based L1 blockchain, ZEC is digital gold and proven the privacy use case and the technology. Now we intend to roll out a suite of privacy based stablecoins and UDAs for the world using the Zcash blockchain. So we will have both a rock concert and a ballet; and market the products to the right customer bases. Those who want a privacy based high vol asset (ZEC) with upside and those that want private transactions (ZUSD and more).
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I don’t see anywhere where ZEC is advertised as a private fiat alternative… Could you provide a link?
when we tell people to convert fiat to zec and then to buy goods and services, that is using zec as a fiat alternative. what do you think all the work for getting retailers to accept zec as money is all about? That is the inference. and when people actually do it, they lose money, i hear it often from people working at zec as well that people believe zec is for spending not holding.
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I am sorry to hear that and clearly, the drop in value of ZEC is a major issue. However, that’s not the definition of a fiat alternative. You can convert and spend right away without loss.
What you describe is a stable coin and AFAIK, Zcash has never been advertised as one.
well it sounds like we might agree? zec is not a viable fiat alternative.the question is what do the less knowledgeable customers who buy zec with the possible belief it’s private money or accept zec at a retail store believe. my view is we are targeting people with marketing that are ending up getting something difference than what they expected. that’s all. maybe it’s right maybe not. but the price is down for a reason.
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Exactly, and if it was a court, they would ask to see evidence that the public was intentionally misled into believing that.
Hence, I am asking what marketing material is advertising that ZEC will retain the same value.
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