Let’s talk about ASIC mining

There is no reason to believe David Vorick. He’s lied in the past, by claiming in November that his Siacoin were 45% more powerful than they actually are. I also think the whole crowdfunded ASIC was incredibly sleazy. I would never trust him given his past behavior. His article has no evidence either, just rumors.

Second, let’s let ASIC manufacturers worry about whether their ASICs will survive a proof of work tweak. If GPU miners fail to get rid of ASIC miners (which is very unlikely), then they’ve lost very little. If ASIC miners fail to survive a fork (which is very likely), they’ve lost millions.

The dynamics of the battle between ASIC and GPU miners so heavily favor GPU miners that it can only be by the deliberate choice of the developers that a cryptocurrency becomes an ASIC-mineable coin.

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Yes, most certainly agree! I only hope the developers choose consensus with GPU miners instead of BITMAIN.

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days later . Are You going to do something or No.

simple qst

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Posting this again but with less comment to be found “offensive” to other readers:

NOTE what is highlighted with bold writing?

Does that sound like ASIC RESISTANCE to you?

Makes you wonder if Zooko [And possibly other ZCash developers] have had an idea in mind for engineering, designing and manufacturing an ASIC specific to ZCash for quite a while. In fact, I personally know a couple of individuals who have a back room VIP meeting with Zooko at ZCon0 in Canada to discuss ASIC’s for ZCash. I’m not sure whether or not the meeting is still planned after recent events but I do know that such a meeting was planned. I’m not giving names but I know it was planned.

I could care less if one of my friends (VIP) is affected financially if a ZCash ASIC does not work out for him with ZEC. I do know it will affect me and many others financially if a “…specialized miners get developed” specifically for ZCash.

I personally have invested nearly $160,000. So, this is a rather serious matter to me. Mining and crypto trading is my life. It’s how I provide for my family. My wife does not work. She stays home to homeschool our son. I don’t have a job or work anywhere except home. I’m the only one providing for my family and it’s all done with mining and trading. That’s probably the main reason why I’m so passionate about this.

If you do not believe I have invested what I say, have a look at this forum I created on bitcointalk.org in regards to my fourth mining room remodel for better cooling: This is page 6 of that forum… Feel free to add any ideas/photos of your own setup if you like for all of us as a community to learn from one another in regards to “ideas” for better cooling setup - Lets Share Ideas of Ways to Manage Heat From Mining in a Home or Warehouse

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All I hear about on the thread it the inevitability of ASIC’s, so we should just give up. The reality is that the tech is coming for real ASIC proof. ASIC’s can be circumvented to be not much better or even worse than a GPU / CPU. Its just a matter of time.

Having developed nine ASIC’s, I can say the the hardware engineers underestimate the software engineers, and the opposite is also true. Once the problem / challenge is out in the open and understood, innovation takes over. The flexibility of software is not even comparable to the flexibility of even a hybrid ASIC’s. Dynamic algorithms constantly changed by the network in a random fashion are coming (Raven is a rather poor example), and I’ve seen a few other very clever ideas.

ASIC’s are not the end of the story, they are the binging. The future will be very different than people think.

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So I said this back in Feb 2017

and was criticized for it.

So while I saw this coming the tide is now tunning, Software engineers are getting a rapid education on what the hardware engineers can do. Both will always say they have the upper hand but the reality of the situation will be a stalemate. Software will drive algorithms to a point that ASIC’s are irrelevant. That is progress, that is innovation, and that is where this is all headed.

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Very informative and helpful post. Your should NOT keep them coming

Edit: added the quote:

Thanks, ZC…

Much appreciated…

@Mrmags @ZC93 keep it civil, personal attacks against other users are not needed to get points across.

Remember: debate the ideas don’t make it personal.

Pro-ASIC, Anti-ASIC, neutral, all opinions are open for discussion. FAQ - Zcash Community Forum

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Question is, is it useful continuing to debate about it? I mean is the ZCash Company listening to it? I guess not.

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Good luck with that attitude. Why are you even here? Do you even understand what this is about? Or are you just interested in promoting your views? Anyone who does not conform to your views needs to be attacked?

Ive met people like that before, usually does not end well for them, so again, good luck with that.

We can’t prevent ASIC forever.

So we have no choice.

We should accept ASIC… but must be created Coin equal.

X16S algorithm is the answer.

it’s not prevent ASIC build but Due to the technological competitiveness of semiconductor manufacturers, there are better performance equipments.

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History is an excellent guide.

Hashpower was weaponised in the BTC/BCH war and used to push an agenda - we really dont want to be vulnerable to that.

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lol, but those are the only one worth buying, unless you also have infinite space and more GPUs more auxiliary (MBs,PSUs etc.)
where I live : https://www.alternate.nl/Hardware/Grafische-kaarten/NVIDIA-GeForce/GTX-1080-Ti/html/listings/1488804880899?lk=22532&size=500#listingResult

Prices are higher while same availability/leadtime, tell me again GPU manufacturers are not showing us the middle finger.

Economic !!! As I pointed previously, again , reading your post I see you don’t understand that.

Let’s say you start with 2000$ capital :slight_smile:

GPUs:
You need to buy MB,PSU (PSU chained), DDR, SSD, rack ( HUGE SPACE) million cables :smiley:
So you end up with 4 gpus giving you ~ 2K sol/sec

ASICs:
1 unit + 1 PSU ( little space ) => ~ 10k sol/sec

Unless BITMAIN hater (aka pro ASIC resistant) it makes 0 economic case.

Also, since GPUs are used for many other purposes GAMES, AI(ML), GRID-CLUSTER etc…
The big advantage is we don’t step on each others toe, making people not in crypto hating crypto !!!
It is the same argument I use when people arguing for solar power, we can use battery to compensate the 80% time unavailability, YES but we all use/need batteries, yet the market is one and manufacturers are simply that many.

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Exactly!

People simply don’t like facts :frowning:

Changing params for the PoW hash is a cat-mouse game with no end. Also, everything is ASICs (including CPUs and GPUs). It is flexibility VS performance, that’s all. Creating an ASIC with some flexibility to firmware-update params is NO brainer.

I’m still in favour of changing the PoW and fork once so we have more Memory bound eqhash spin-off. This way the battle is unnecessary since memory (expensive!) is gonna be a common denominator.

This way, people that are pro-ASIC (like me) will be happy, while all the fear of obsolete GPUs will be put at rest ( hopefully ) .

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When you stray away from the ASIC debate and start making personal assertions like “he’s an idiot” or “they need to get a job” then it’s personal.
And personal attacks are not needed or welcome on the Fourms.

I kindly request all users keep it civil towards each other or accounts will be suspended. FAQ - Zcash Community Forum

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I agree. But to change the memory parameter. What would that do to profitablity to cards. They may not work as well

What the heck are you talking about?
Can you hear my tone in my voice? No.
Can you see my facial expressions? No.
Do I have a job? Yes & No. I’m the owner of my own business. I’ve taught telephone technicians how to use their meter to identify and locate troubles in 5-Day and 10-Day courses since July 27, 1997. I’m the only employee (President). I’m a contractor hired by CenturyLink from time to time. CenturyLink is my main client. However, CenturyLink stock has taken a hit over the past few years. As their stock price has fallen; so has their budget. When budgets are cut, one of the first things to go is training. I used to be on the road 42 to 45 weeks each year. Now, I’m on the road maybe 4 weeks annually.

When business began slowing down for me in 2014, I began looking for another source of income and stumbled upon Bitcoin mining with Bitmain S1’s, then S3’s, S4’s, Spondoolies SP-20’s and Bitmain S7’s. In 2014 I had approximately 16 weeks of training courses for CenturyLink. Mining was more or less supplemental income because I made $7,200 every week of courses I taught.

I also began teaching myself how to trade back in 2014. I’ve actually become a pretty damn good trader and about to become an active Trading Team Expert for tradunity.com. I was invited to be a member of their team of experts about 2 weeks ago. They are waiting for me to complete my mining room remodel with power upgrade before joining their team. I can actually make enough money from trading each month to support my family each month without mining. However, just because I can, does that mean I should just bow down to BITMAIN and give up all the time and hard work I’ve invested in my mining room? God forbid…

So, if you think I’m desperate for money and begging or crying for mercy for me and my family, you’re sadly mistaken. You exercised terrible judgement of “appearance” and not righteous judgement. I’m simply standing up for my investment and the rest of my fellow GPU mining patriots. I can do fine by trading alone. However, I’m also a nerd at heart and simply LOVE my GPU mining. More so than ASIC mining and even more so than trading crypto. Don’t get me wrong, it feels good to make good trades. Crypto trading can be addictive. I still love my mining more though. I still have yet to get burned out on mining. However, as a trader, you can get burned out rather quickly. Especially, if you have stayed up the past 48 hours trading without sleep. I don’t do those long episodes as often as I once did. Mainly for that reason: To avoid getting burned out.

I also KNOW how much of a threat BITMAIN actually is to the crypto community in general. It doesn’t matter what coin it is, BITMAIN is a threat to mining decentralization.

So, Mrmags. I respectfully ask you to chill with the personal attacks and false accusations please, sir?

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nothing … they are coming with expensive DDR5 of 8GB and more !
Someone pointer earlier that only a fraction of that (~1GB) is used. I need to verify that claim by profiling GPU cuda code, which although an excellent exercise, I am afraid I don’t have the time at the moment. Maybe someone care to shred more light/numbers !?

Bitmain has just posted a rebuttal to that Sia article @zooko On Sia's “The State of Cryptocurrency Mining” - blog.bitmain.com

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