"lower prices lead to centralization"


#22

Interesting parts:

The short-term outlook is not optimistic, either. Despite the enthusiasm of some bullish industry observers, smaller miners are faced with a very real crisis right now, and the promise of future price bumps may not be enough to keep all of them operating on the bitcoin blockchain. For miners, energy, resources, and other overheads mean that running at a loss is not favorable in any situation. Despite miners seeing $4.7 billion in revenues in 2018, smaller mining operations cannot keep up with larger setups that have slowly centralized control of the market.

The reality for crypto miners is that while the market remains volatile, so will their fortunes. While it may be highly profitable to continue mining in a bull market, the extended period of losses the industry is experiencing makes it hard to generate revenues. Moreover, the status quo favors larger miners who can buffer their costs and remain operational even in downturns.

https://www.ccn.com/whats-next-for-crypto-miners/


#23

@zooko
Are you really sure that Bitmain for example will shut down it’s mining operations with 2 cents per kw/h compared to the rest of the private miners?

Here the link to my project comparing who what pays in what country/region worldwide. Pretty sure this makes it very clear that Bitmain with 2 cents at one of its mining facilties and 4 cents at it’s other won’t shut down anytime soon …

For everybody interested in electricity prices worldwide compared to what bitmain pays here the link to my “electricity prices lead to mining centralization” project:


#24

Thank you so much for supporting the revolution. :slightly_smiling_face::heart::zebra::zebra::zebra:


#25

The more and more I hear Zooko talk, the more I realize he has little idea what he is talking about most of the time.

At home miners will not be able to complete with a company that is paying industry rates for power(much lower), get a huge discount on batch orders(cheaper hardware), and probly have a supply of capital to stay going in a bear market(money).

"leaving a diverse collection of hobbyist, ideological, and small-scale miners. Or maybe the opposite!"

If Zooko said " Bitcoin might go up, or it might go down, Who knows!?" it sounds stupid and makes you look dumb for even saying it. But this is the same thing he just said here.

“It might be more centralized, or it might be less centralized”…wow so insightful. Still flip flopping on your opinions I see, so hard to make a decision and stick with it…


#26

Just found another post from Zooko’s Twitter account.

"Enjoyed listening to this. Roger has always struck me as a sincere and high-integrity person."

Are you kidding me Zooko? Roger is a high-integrity person? Get the hell out of here.
He runs the website Bitcoin,com(SCAM SITE).
He tries to sell BCH as if it is BTC on that site. Screwing over new people that do not know better. You click the link that says (BUY BITCOIN HERE) and the first thing it shows is BCH not BTC.

Nobody else calls BTC (Bitcoin Core) except the BCH people, he does this to create the illusion that BCH is the real Bitcoin. Im not even going to go into the interviews he has given that are decietful to fool people into thinking BCH is the true Bitcoin.

He copy and pasted BTC source code, changed a few variables(block size),and tries to steal Bitcoins identity for his personal gain.

Your right Zooko, upstanding guy Roger is…

Once again, the more I read from Zooko, the less knowledgeable he seems to be. Some of the statements he makes are just completely wrong.


#27

Another japan mining facility closing it’s doors due no more being profitable …

With the BTC, LTc and other Mining facilities exiting mining business in higher electrcity price regions we just see what’s coming for ZEC too … sooooon.


#28

Zooko is much wiser than you’re giving him credit for, and I believe he created this topic for the purposes of promoting dialogue akin to the Socratic method. The most wise among us are keenly aware of their own ignorance and make no statements to suggest that they know everything.

I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something, although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do. In this trifling particular, then, I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know. - Socrates, Apology of Socrates by Plato

You may think you know better, but you don’t.

There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet, Hamlet by Shakespeare


#29

By accident i found an interesting research:

An Economic Analysis of the Bitcoin Payment System∗
Gur Huberman, Jacob D. Leshno, Ciamac Moallemi,
This version: October 31, 2018

Under 4.1 it states:

The capacity of the system is fixed by the protocol, and does not depend on the
number of miners. All miners make zero profit if all miners have the same cost cm per
computational unit. Miners can make positive profits if their cost is below cm.10

This brief section presents a stylized view of miners thereby abstracting from various
real-world issues. Actual miners incur fixed costs to purchase mining equipment; available
equipment is heterogeneous in price, quality and vintage; innovative equipment manufacturers are also miners; electricity costs are location- and possibly miner-dependent. Future
work will take up these nuances.

It’s an interesting conclusion to POW mining, no matter in the paper is related to BTC it applies to all other POW designs as well in my opinion.


#30

Speaks for itself in my opinion and backs up my theory that lower prices force out miners in mid to high electricity regions and shift the hashpower to very low electricity cost regions, hence, leads to mining centralization: