@garethtdavies I think switching the parameters to 144,5 is likely the best solution at the moment, but its not going to be perfect. That being said, if more memory is required it will certainly make it more difficulty for ASIC manufacturers to produce a cost effective device that has a gigantic advantage over GPUs. I’m glad you agree with me on a happy medium. I think its really important to be as inclusive as possible, a strong community leads to more advocacy for adoption.
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hey man i pay 0.13€ kWh and was able to build a 10x 1060 mostly 3 GB mining rigs founded from mined zcash i started with a R9 280x from aftermarket for 100 bucks and i didnt invested any direct money since but at current prices and coin earnings i wont even cover my electricity costs
you still got the hardware that can be resold… thats solid profit!
Rather point it on someone that didnt drop the resistance for money and is more profitable that zec right now
It doesn’t matter zcash team got rich of us GPU miners now don’t care what’s Zooko make just over 300,000 a month if that’s not centralized than what is and the company is making just under a million
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Hi,
Thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate it.
It is the sunken R&D cost that is what was meant to protect the network from asics in the first place. It seems strange to me to use it as an argument to have them. Or are you speaking about the miners costs rather than the manufacturing costs?
Doesn’t that cut both ways, so now the network is obligated to those that sunk that cost, making what would be technical decisions into political and economical ones instead? potentially fragmenting the community and/or codebase.
Can you imagine the absolute shit-fit that would happen in the community if in December they change the parameters (like zooko has already suggested he wants to) for a non essential upgrade to the protocol that would invalidate their hardware…
Yes some people will take it in their stride, like they are taking the gpu/asic thing in their stride. But there will be a lot more angry people when you invalidate their speciality hardware they bought just to support your project and make magic internet money. Like you said, they have a greater economic incentive than current gpu miners and they will potentially have less technical savvy, so they are more likely to attribute their loss to zcashco and the coin. Making less people want to accept it for value, undermining the whole concept.
So whilst I get the specialised hardware argument, I do not see it as a beneficial move for the network in general at this current time. I see it as a very risky move. more of a gamble than a risk, even.
I agree they work but they are all far from perfect, all have various different positives and negatives. rather than introduce a completely new system (without drastic reasoning) I strongly feel it would be better to perfect the proof of work system so it has the desirable properties. properties which can only really be worked out with time.
also I don’t understand how staking would work with z-addresses… although zooko did mention in a post that he quite liked the idea, or similar so I don’t know. I probably missing something obvious.
Yeah I don’t see it as the most pressing or biggest issue either.
Thanks.
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Well root it was in zcashs white paper it was written that when the first asics come ( if they ever will ) you guys will resist. First Asic came out and the whole team went back on their words for asic resistance. That was so poor. Miners are the ones who took you where you guys are today , and you guys just turned your backs on us. Not to mention you guys gave up the war without a fight.
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That’s s…t coin mate time to mine xmr. It’s always been basic resistant… not like zec
XMR is at a high risk of secret ASIC development. It only forked after an ASIC was announced but was probably being secretly mined with ASICs before that announcement. I’m sure an ASIC developer will make one, but since there was a fork after their announcement, you can bet they will just keep it secret this time. That’s one of the big problems with GPU mining.
It’s always been problem when some coin is on top
Too bad for zec that the 49 votes decide to not fork immedetly against ASIC… IT’S MUST BE DO E TO KEEP ZEC EQUEAL 
It would be easy to see the difficulty increases if more than a few ASIC’s appeared on the network. This is not a reason I would choose to allow ASIC’s. It is actually one of my arguments against them. Greedy corporations should be punished just as bad actors in a PoS system would lose their funds. They have no right to develop and profit from a network if the community doesn’t want them. If it makes their network less secure then it is their choice. ASIC manufacturers are the ones risking their investments. It would be nice if they actually contributed positively to the crypto ecosystem and slowly ramped up the production of ASIC’s and did not mine with them at all. Most ASIC’s now are unprofitable or borderline unprofitable. How many GPU-only mined coins are unprofitable now? I am concerned that even the Z9 mini’s will be unprofitable by spring.
It would be hard to notice if they were added gradually to 20-30% like before.
and slowly ramped up the production of ASIC’s and did not mine with them at all
That is essentially what Bitmain has done. They don’t pre-mine the ASICs they sell. Innosilicon has pre-mined ASICs. I agree that behavior is unethical.
Aside from a few unstable/developing countries, anyone can buy an ASIC.
I am concerned that even the Z9 mini’s will be unprofitable by spring.
Current and even very conservative calculations show them profitable before the end of the year. Even if the difficulty doubles or triples they should be profitable.
I just want to say that this is the same CPU vs. GPU argument. Everyone has a CPU but not everyone has a high-end graphics card. Is there an algorithm that is GPU-resistant so that we can really be more fair? I’m all for it if that’s what we’re doing, but I think it’s a losing battle. I think we should let the free market develop hardware to suit the needs of miners so they can keep more zec and pay less electricity while also securing the Zcash network.
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Xmg is still resistant for gpu&ASIC it you want to cpu mining i talk about that the ASIC create centralized China controlled mining in ZEC it’s not good for this coin and this coin is not EQUEAL anymore
You are absolutely correct! Gosh that hurt to say 
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Monero is committed to regularly tweaking the proof of work algorthim. ASIC manufacturers won’t be able to mine much before their hardware gets bricked again. They might be able to make some profits, given how cheap ASICs are to make, but it’s not the end of the world.
Uhmmm, this might be temporary true if:
- BTC price is below 7.000 USD
- someone goes only after whattomine coins
As of today with calculated electricity price of USD 0.13 i get these results
- B3, borderline, network overtaken by GPU, lol
- E3, Profit +~7.50-8.00$
- X3, Profit +~16.00$
- S9, Profit + ~1.30$
- L3, Profit + ~6.00$
- D3, Profit/borderline +~0.30$
- Z9mini, Profit +~25.00-30.00$
- Baikal X10, Profit +~8.00-8.50$
- Baikal B, Profit +~2.50$
if you call that unprofitable/borderline than i have no idea what guidelines you have for profitable…
My 1080ti’s make barely about 1.00$ profit right now which concerns me much more to be honest.
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Most of your numbers are wrong, as usual.
The L3 makes a loss mining Litecoin: Litecoin (LTC) Mining Profit Calculator - WhatToMine
The D3 also makes a $3 loss mining everything.
The S9 makes a profit of $1.46 a day, despite consuming 1350 watts of power.
A single 1080 Ti makes a profit of $1.25 a day, consuming only 200 watts of power.
Like always you neither read the post, nor do check:
Here, especially in bold: someone goes only after whattomine coins
Let me guess: you checked only whattomine or a service that uses only whattomine? … I knew it! No need to answer as it’s answered allready with your, as usual, not backed up by anything, contra anti argument.
Just like always and as i said many times: You don’t care about graphs, numbers, whatever.
What Scrypt coin is paying $6 per L3?
I just was about to make a real time screenshot and posting even a reference to a calculator for that coin, but than again, why should i?
- next time you call me again a liar no matter i post everytime numbers i back up
- others jump on hard research work of mine, which actually isn’t a big problem, but still.
But hey, why not. check NLG Gulden Just to show good faith and to proof that what i write has a backup and not just throwing in numbers.
P.S.: How about an excuse after you checked?