If I have an UA with both an Orchard and a Sapling address encoded and people send to both, do I have ZEC in both pools? If so, am I able to spend from both pools in one transaction?
Yes
It depends on the wallet, and how it deals with edge cases. Here is a good starting point:
For a current snapshot of the pools, see here:
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This is very informative thank you. I assume all wallets are able to send to Orchard now, as well as receive to Orchard. If that is true, wouldnât it be better to use UAâs with just an Orchard address?
This way all shielded funds will quickly find their way into Orchard.
Yes, the amount being transacted is leaked, but the sender and recipient are not so this does not seem like a big deal?
How much this matters depends on the individual/circumstance. I think moving forward Orchard is/should be prioritized but âforcingâ it will cause issues socially. 
Most wallets, especially the good ones, have full support for Orchard but not all. Part of the reason for UAâs is backwards compatibility and hence the âLegacyâ Sapling and Transparent receivers. These wallets will also combine utxoâs and, like mentioned, the portion of funds that cross pools is revealed for the purpose of tracking the poolsâ total, but no other information. The receivers of a UA, including the Orchard-Only address, are accessible very easily by pasting the UA into a blockexplorer where it will display them. Whether any particular wallet exposes it to you within the wallet depends on the design.
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I have been doing a deep dive into Zcash coming from the Bitcoin world. It has been since I got into Monero a few years ago that I have been exploring a new cryptocurrency in such depth (learning about address types, trying wallets, looking at txs on block explorers, etcâŚ)
My preliminary conclusion is that Zcash is brilliant technology when it comes to the cryptography with z to z txs being the best privacy in the game, but very severely lacking when it comes other things, including ironically privacy.
Many wallets I have tried encode a t-address into the UA and reuse the same UA. This is just unbelievable to me to be quite honest. Even Bitcoin uses a new address by default in every wallet. Anyone can just extract the t-address and look at any txs made to it. Any transaction made to it from a KYC exchange and your UA is doxxed.
It would be one thing if the wallet showed a new UA each time, but even then when spending from the t-addresses those UAs would be tied together. You would have to prohibit the user from spending from t-addresses, only allow to shield them in the wallet. But even then, if multiple t-addresses are shielded at the same time you are potentially doxxing yourself.
Yes, some wallets can generate UAs with only the Orchard and Sappling address like Ywallet, but this is already several levels of complexity too much for the average user.
Of course, the people active here understand how to use this tech privately, but Zcash is being marketed as being the ultimate private crypto to normies. It is, but only if you have done a serious deep dive which means for 95% of users it is absolutely NOT the most private crypto.
What is needed is a wallet that
- does not include t-addresses in the UA
- Never reuses t-addresses
Shielded addresses can be reused but it should be emphasized to always use a different one per identity so maybe they should just be cycled as well.
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How would this solve how most new users get onboarded from a CEX who, checks notes, do not support shielded addresses? ( h/t gemini ! )
T-address rotation is on the way in Zashi, and Zkool allows you turn off t-addresses. Ywallet/Zkool allow mutliple accounts. Use the wallet that makes sense for your usecase.
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Try Zkool or Ywallet. They are multi account and allow for full coin and address control. Other wallets have auto-handling of notes based on the wallet libs pre-configured behavior. Ywallet and Zkool have auto but also you can pick exactly from and to where coins move, if you want. These wallets, if given a Sapling+Orchard UA and spending notes from both Sapling and Orchard, will make 2 txs so notes do not cross pools and the values not revealed. They have diversified addresses and you can select what receivers it includes.
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Iâm not against including t-addresses in the wallet, as long as they are one time use and not included in the UA so at the very least somebody cannot see your transactions to and from the exchange if you share your UA. Once funds are received to a t-address, the user should be forced to shield them before being able to spend.
AFAIK most exchanges donât even support sending to UAs so whatâs the point of including the t-address in them?
T-addresses exist to receive from exchanges and thatâs it, they should absolutely have no other role whatsoever.
I tried both. Ywallet includes the t-address in the UA by default and users donât change defaults. Zkool doesnât but does show it in the same screen and the interface is confusing as hell.
Again, what I think whatâs going on here, is that the people building and using Zcash are so deep into this and technical that itâs obvious to them, but I can assure you for the average person it is absolutely not.
This is fine, except for that the fact that Zcash is being promoted as being the ultimate private cryptocurrency.
I wonder if this is what Bitcoin was like in the early days with an absolutely unusable UX for most people and with the claim of being untraceable. Since then the UX has improved and we know itâs not untraceable.
Zcash actually could be untraceable, but a ton of work needs to be done on making it so for people who are not spending their Saturdays on the Zcash forum 
Regarding Zashi, once they add t-address rotation and ephemeral refund addresses I will consider it a privacy tool suitable for the average crypto user. Should never have been promoted without
For a desktop wallet, I mean, how hard can it be!
RECEIVE SCREEN
Here are some UAs that you can use to receive privately, use on per identity (or just never reuse)
Oh and here is a button to generate a one time use t-address to receive from exchanges.
UNSHIELDED COINS SCREEN
Looks like you have some unshielded coins. To be able to spend them, click this shiny button to shield them!
Ok rant over 
If you are refering to Zashi here, this already happens.
1.) Default Zashi UA does not include a t-address
2.) In order to spend funds in Zashi, all funds must be shielded
Open question that deserves debate! It depends on UA adoption and that is hard to predict.
I agree its a bit tricky but driving stick is always going to be harder than automatic
See here:
â
This happens in any industry. âMarketorsâ spin a narrative that catches attention, despite some edge cases. Up to the consumer to do their hw, this is a very hard problem to solve.
All in all, happy youâre getting this deep in the weeds and think its awesome youâre excited about Zcash!
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It is also pretty easy to just have all the wallets, too. HW wallet users may be tied down a bit but otherwise users are pretty free to move around as they choose. Theyâre also light and donât affect each other, itâs a pretty cool feature.
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It does, but as discussed it has many other issues for now.
Honestly, even if exchanges start supporting sending to UAs I still donât think t-addresses should be included in them unless we move to a model like Bitcoin where addresses arenât reused at all, because people will share their UA online and everybody will be ably to see funds flowing to and from the included t-addresses.
As long as Zcash is not private by default, a strict separation between UA and t-addresses is essential.
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On going discussion you may find riveting:
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Good luck getting the wallet devs to understand the importance and impact of what you are saying.
Many of us especially in the last week tried and failed to get to them. They are fairly responsive here on the forum but they are really doing their best to downplay how critical this is.
Yeah it feels like they are just building cool toys for themselves, instead of wallets that are usable for regular crypto users who really need privacy. Which is weird for a cryptocurrency that prides itself on being the most private.
This why I still recommend monero to people who need privacy, itâs inferior compared tot shielded transactions but at least it gives privacy by default for all users.
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