Simon Liu v ECC

This topic is for community forum users to discuss the recent lawsuit brought by a former ECC employee Simon Liu (known as Bitcartel here on the forum). Some users keep discussing it in other threads which are going off-topic. So I will move that discussion here.

It’s worth noting that this lawsuit/service is a one-sided document making allegations and presenting documents which may or may not be true, and may or may not have merit. It will be up to the lawyers/judge to examine all the facts and decide who is in the right and what should be done about it.

Zooko, CEO of Electric Coin Company has stated that they will not be commenting on pending litigation

Nor will I be further commenting on it since I have no knowledge of the situation.

The Mod team has discussed this topic and agreed that forum users are free to discuss these kinds of things as long as the Code of Conduct is followed.

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Added (unedited/not commented) whole article at the top. This should make clear that it’s just that, the whole article without anything else.
Everybody can double check with the link at the bottom which leads to the article

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I’m very confused about what that article is saying.

ECC promised to pay the former employee (Simon Liu) with some kind of a stock option? The articles does indicate that the stock option means a share of the Founder’s reward. Simply put, ECC didn’t pay his salary. But that’s highly unlikely. At least it sounds fishy. So the guy worked with ECC for more than 2 years without getting paid?

The article says:
Liu joined ECC on 27 Oct 2016 and the company promised 15,000 ZEC for his services.
ECC denied the payment on 31 Dec 2018, saying there was no such agreement.

ECC denied the agreement about paying their employee’s wage? What? Apparently ECC doesn’t pay their employees monthly, yearly, or even bi-yearly. Is there some new way to pay employees that I don’t know about?

This is a lawsuit claimed by Liu, against ECC. So naturally, ECC is the one that seems responsible for all the wrongdoings, for now. I guess it’s up to ECC to clear up this case for everyone and solve it properly.

Not just promised, it’s in a written contract. See screenshots below

No, it’s more some kind of bonus, at least that’s my understanding for the word “equity award”.

Resource of the whole paper: https://www.scribd.com/document/412558933/Simon-Liu-v-The-Zerocoin-Electric-Company-LLC-CGC-19-576321

Edit: Just found this regarding the lawsuit:

The Superior Court of California for San Francisco County reported the following activities in the suit brought by Simon Liu against The Zerocoin and other unnamed defendants on May 29:

‘Contract/Warranty, Complaint Filed By Plaintiff Liu, Simon As To Defendant The Zerocoin Electric Coin Company Llc Does 1 Through 50, Inclusive Summons Issued, Judicial Council Civil Case Cover Sheet Filed Case Management Conference Scheduled For Oct-30-2019 Proof Of Service Due On Jul-29-2019 Case Management Statement Due On Oct-07-2019’

‘Notice To Plaintiff’
Case number CGC19576321 was filed in the Superior Court of California for San Francisco County on 05/29/2019.

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Thank you for the full document. It’s going to be real helpful for me to understand the whole situation.

Damn, if everything in this article is true, it really puts me off from buying and investing in Zcash. I guess we will need to wait for the trial and hope that the verdict is public and not secret.

We should make a new thread for updating this legal case.

looks like ECC’s getting sued

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The US is a sue-happy place thats for sure, this is only greypill shit
Boo! :rofl:
Promised a portion of the founders reward? Pretty sure that’s a lie

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Regardless of the merits of the lawsuit this is really bad news that Simon (bitcartel) has left ECC. Check his contributions to Zcash here https://github.com/zcash/zcash/blob/master/doc/authors.md

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Indeed, Bitcartel has been a part of Zcash since day one, I had no idea he had quit until just now. Bummer :pensive:

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damn, $2,000,000+ … interesting read …

Get him for the foundation. Wouldn’t that be a good option?

Damn, on place #2 by numbers of Zcash contributions. That’s a loss for sure!

For sure a big loss. Always enjoyed his technical know-how. Let’s see how this turns out…

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Read every line of the civil suit… wow… simply just wow

If Mr Liu (Bitcartel) has ANY of this is writing then bye-bye Zcash reserves! (maybe they should friendly fork for extra money)

Especially the line where it says about the performance review and that if he didn’t shut up he was going to be fired!

I have weekly meetings with H.R., with the constant reminder (I hear it in my sleep!) document, Document, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!!!
Who ever has the most documentation usually wins

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Just some “next-day-thoughs” about that issue:

1.) If this is true that he had to face “repression” for being critical than all the transparency talk isn’t worth 2 cents.
2. ) I had so far suspections why critical adressing of issues (or general uncomfortable questions) don’t get really answered, avoided and/or answered only generally without asked details. Transparency seems to be only applied when it fits, if it doesn’t fit don’t await transparency and answers.
3.) I wonder if bitcartels views of being more “anti-asic” had something to do with it…
4.) Why wasn’t the leaving of Simon (bitcartel) announced and shared with the community? Again, seems only news that fit are shared. Transparency?
5.) A loss like Simon, the 2nd most active gifthub contributer is a loss for sure. But i think it’s as well a signal if the 2nd most active engineer leaves Zcash.
6.) What is our forum transparency talk worth at all? Having in mind what’s going on “obviously” behind the scenes between the core team, what’s left for us, some forum members, small holders, miners?
7.) Will we get a statement from the ECC about the claims Simon (bitcartel) made? I doubt.
8.) Is the performance review really that bad that it was important not going public (i guess that’s what happened).
9. Just a general thought and curiousity. Are all employees at ECC and Foundation members US nationals? Are there any europeans, south americans, africans, asians as well?

I readed the whole document. I had the impression he as talking about company shares, not the FR, but i could wrong. Could you please copy the relevant part? But if it’s indeed the FR than it’s of interest as well.

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Pg 3 line 4
Factual allegations #10

But why would he lie about that ? I wasn’t there, but I can imagine there would be some kind of deal. It will be clear in the future I guess, maybe @Zooko can explain in his Topic he closed 2 years ago and reposted in today :see_no_evil::speak_no_evil:

It’s the only place that mentions the founders reward(unless I missed it), supposedly a written agreement was made for the acquisition of stock options

I read it too, I am not a lawyer nor is English my native language , so got a little confused by Stocks in the company . And then there was the FR. What I read here, because there would be a payment in shares in the company ( the stocks ? ) He also would have right to a equal part of the FR. So if he would get a stock share of let’s say 5 % he also would receive a part of the FR. But that’s how I read it, and as said, not a lawyer :grin: