At least they admit they use them first testing or not some honestly is all ways good. but 10 k pop for some thing that will lose it’s value to fast is it really worth it .
also why do that > [Daira] didn’t mean to direct at you .
He’s a CEO what more can you expect from those type shilles it really brother me when some one lies about some thing and then lies more then on top of that gets super greedily . when there is plenty to go around O you can’t take it with you when your dead once you die you lose it and never have it again . [Moderation edit by @daira: comparison to a certain President that can be interpreted as a personal attack removed.]
And then you encourage Innosilicon to lobby the Zcash Foundation to allow ASICs. In my opinion, this is not something that as the CEO of ZcashCo --which is a role that already has a highly centralizing influence-- you should be doing. If Innosilicon want to lobby the Foundation they can do so; they don’t need your encouragement or endorsement.
[Moderation edit by @daira: sexual reference removed. Please read the Code of Conduct.]
How much is Innosilicon paying you , man this is bad idea being this up .
other wise.
and this more then likely get me band owell .
Nice write up
Dedicated ASIC for a period may make some feel uncomfortable, but in the long run, as long as Zcash foundation make sure ASICs are accessible and production volume in check. It is gonna do a much better job than GPU to keep the network growing safe and dedicated, Just watch Zcash network curve, 20% or more swing in hashrate often in one day, why? Smart pool and GPU farms switch aglorithems with a blink of eyes to chase easy money.
IMO, Zooko is trying to make sure that the whole thing is under control with communication, not otherwise. I would encourage more communication for transparency, not less,
This is a pipe-dream. It will never be a reality, regardless of what “commitments” ASIC manufacturers want to make. The fact of the matter is that ASIC manufacturers will NEVER be required to uphold this and there is no penalty or incentive for them to do so or not. To expect this as a possibility is 100% delusional.
I know that some ZcashCo members have indicated that this is what they want and are hoping for but it will never happen. If there is the illusion that it might happen then someone is being untruthful.
[Moderation edit by @daira: personal attack on @root removed.]
And actually yes, Zooko (among others) has indicated this several times on multiple posts. It was his cornerstone request in his interviews with ASIC manufactures.
I mean your quoting people and not including sources.
I’m actually not too pleased with Innosilicon. A little transparency would go along way would it not?
A little offtopic but I’m more interested in Nvidias plans. The gold rush I’m sure caught them by surprise. With one of the longest gaps in architecture I’m sure there will be a more optimized sku for mining. Wheres the Jensen Huang interview!
Please, folks, it is pointless to make personal attacks because they will be removed, and if you persist you will be banned. That includes comparisons to fascists or sexual references. I am trying to do “light touch” moderation in order to let all views be expressed, but some of you are making it really difficult.
@zooko If there is only one thing that you cannot get in China/Chinese companies then it will definitely be transparency. Regardless of what promise or contract you make with them you will never expect them to be as transparent as you wish. I am a Chinese and I know way too well on how Chinese people run business. We learned not be transparent from our rich Chinese history and that’s something that you cannot change about our mindset. One more advice is if you don’t speak Chinese then don’t do business in China unless you want to dig a hole for yourself (Find someone that knows Chinese to help you out will be a better way to deal with them). Finally if I have to pay Bitmain/Innosilicon for my hardware, then I would rather pay Nvidia at least I know they will spend our money in a better way.
I also agree with @daira that the ASIC resistant feature is one of the core values for zcash and that makes me choose to mine this coin. Don’t let ASIC monopoly take over zcash please.
As mentioned elsewhere in the forum, close to 10% of the mining hashpower appears to belong to one single mining address, running ~1000 workers, achieving close to 50M sol/s (network is ~550M sol/s).
Given that each worker needs to generate ~50k sol/s, that would probably point to Innosilicon. If true, this batch has so far been up for 10 days based on first payout, which is more than a couple of days.
Do you know of a reason as to why @zooko has not responded the concerns raised in your message yet?
@zooko , please publicly respond to @daira’s concerns.
edit: in reference to zooko’s question about small miner v big farm I think that can be generalised off the 3gb DAG file stuff on windows, I will try to put some numbers together. it might be useful.
To be fair to @zooko and other ASIC supporters, there have been a huge number of messages and the threads concerning ASIC resistance have been very difficult to keep track of.
On the other hand, I’ve raised the issue of vulnerability of ASIC miner hardware companies to coercion/cooption/shutdown quite a few times --including in person at the mining-related sessions at Zcon0 where Zooko was present-- and have never heard a convincing (or for that matter, any) counterargument. Nor have I heard any response to the Litecoin segwit example from ASIC advocates.
Not to be rude, but silence is the appropriate response from the ASIC proponents when they don’t have a counter argument it seems. If you make a valid point, with corroborating proof that cannot be debunked or at least minimized it is conveniently ignored as if the point was never made. So I will point at this now, and remind those in the pro-ASIC camp, here is a valid concern, and it is a real potential issue. What do you intend to do to mitigate these named issues, some of which I have brought up myself “numerous” times in the “ASIC” mega thread. Simply ignoring it won’t solve the problem, or mitigate it. You seem to be so sold that ASIC is the golden solution to all woes…well, how do you solve this? Simply trying to make the claim GPU has the same issues is flatly untrue. Both AMD and Nvidia have headquarters in the US, hence, they fall under US Law where predatory practices would get them a swift visit from the FTC. The ASIC manufactures do not have these encumbrances (something I also have pointed out before).
So with that logic, please go explain to flat earthers that the earth is indeed round. You can have all of the logic, scientific proof, undeniable video evidence and people will only believe what they want. Which is why the greater good exists.
Then again the greater good created witch trials (which seems like how anyone that wants ASIC for Zcash is treated), crusades, and etc.
What happened or did anyone do when Flypool had over 51% of the network for months ?
What happened or did anyone do when the monopolies of Nvidia and AMD raised the pricing on all of the GPU’s to 40% of higher from MSRP ?
One final note, you can’t become a 4 billion dollar company and have an IPO and not have to answer to regulatory laws and practices.
Flat earthers…yeah along the same lines…but way way more out there than just ignoring inconvenient facts about ASIC vulnerabilities.
Flypool and 51% of the hash:
Yes and no. Flypool didn’t “have” anything really, miners who represented 50-51% of the hash used Flypool’s mining service. Flypool didn’t “control” anything really, still doesn’t. “Could” they have done something nefarious…sure they could, but for how long really? Your essentially burning the people providing that hash…you think they are going to stick around and keep getting burned?? No, not really. I’m more concerned at the moment will real 51% threats that we are already seeing…none of them involved a commercial pool by the way…unless someone has something to indicate a pool colluded with it?
Nvidia/AMD prices? Yeah…the majority stopped buying. The desperate, and those with the ability to procure GPU’s are close to MSRP (original) kept buying. The foolish paid $1000+ for a 1080ti.
Can a certain company who was reported as being worth 4 Billion…but now suddenly trying to IPO for 40 Billion (hmmmmmmm) not have to answer regulatory laws? Who’s laws you talking about? The one, or even “the other” who shall not be named, both reside outside the US, and Europe. Take a gander at what they are actually required to report in say “China”. You will probably be surprised how little they have to report…and they don’t necessarily have to be completely honest about it either from what I have been reading (assuming it is indeed factual).
You make it sound like I’ve said this over and over again (regarding the IPO). Believe this is the first time I weighed in on it. and I’m not wrong.
There is the series B, yes yes, but when they go public they estimate a 30-40 billion valuation (hell of a jump).
According to the report, Bitmain plans to hold an initial public offering (IPO) on the Stock Exchange of Hong Kong in September and expects to go public with a market cap between $30 billion and $40 billion.