Whats more important to you? Sapling or ASIC Fork

happen to me here (indonesia) too.customs here tend to do ‘red lights’ on unusual product like ASIC (or other things like airsoft gun), even with import permit/documents they will halt and questioning what item is this and at the end money talks again, and it is not always easy especially when you got no inside man. any ASIC fan will keep claiming ASIC is easier to get, but not for me, and yes they will ignore the fact i can buy GPU just 1Km from my home. i’m still waiting the official ‘get out of here’ announcement tho. Good day to you sir

4 Likes

They don’t have to find them they just ban them at the custom and tell Bitmain to stop selling to their country. you can’t ban GPU like that cause they are multi-purpose! So the same reason you can’t ban the internet to stop crytpo.

2 Likes

Fight fire with fire :wink:

@phakov Btw I predict a difficulty increase in th coming weeks, been almost 150 days, dont freak out! :grimacing:

2 Likes

I expect the difficulty to become 20 million by the first week of July and 150 million by September.

My question is why do you support ASICs currently with the Bitmain monoply and limited supply of ASICs? I have yet to hear a decent reason why its a good thing.

2 Likes

I would expect an 8-10x increase during the first batch release. The curveball is that this is the “mini” version. What does the non-mini look like. :thinking:

1 Like

Zippo substantial evidence of any kind besides a shady tweet from a company you don’t trust anyways
You think all these people just showed up out of the blue to write 1000 word fud replies for your benefit? Weather the storm
Zcash co has integrity
Have a little faith

My guess is based off the data from when the Dash ASIC miners went into service. There we saw a 20 time increase in the difficulty within the first 60 days of deployment.

Sia was about 8x I think.

Assuming they exist, yeah its gonna get rough, but adaptation is the best measure of intelligence and options serve an ability to adapt, add a little time and critical thinking and at the very least you have an educated guess which could be but is not limited to follow suit and diverge
Edit- you can’t actually substantiate that hard forking will be the most profitable thing for you and your rigs, could be
But without analysis of other options because it hasnt been but a week or so since everyone went nuts, you can’t

1 Like

I like to think of it as Zcash was sitting all by itself playing chess (unending)
Then someone wheels over deep blue to play too
Whatya do? Winning is unrealistic, so lose or concede, OR…

1 Like

intelligence != adaptation

It’s possible to do both…

Sapling needs to happen as scheduled, screwing around with a major update is a very bad thing.

All that’s needed ‘right now’ to address ASIC is a clear and binding commitment to brick them after Sapling is complete.

2 Likes

zAdresses (and the way we can use them) are the core of the Zcash project. This is the difference Zcash has with its competitors.
Have you ever tried to send ZEC from z to z adress ? It takes a while, even with 8GB of RAM.

If we want Zcash widely accepted, we probably need to make it run fast on mobile phones. The journey will be long…

2 Likes

I was playing the devil’s advocate with my questions there…

In any case, FYI, mobile performance is only the tip of the iceberg of the sapling upgrade. For adoption purposes mobile performance is the highlighted argument but I can assure you there is muuuch more than that. Zero Knowledge will open so many doors we havn’t even seen before.

3 Likes

That’s a one side view with a narrative painted by someone who is vocally pro-ASIC. By your own logic I can take every claim you make about GPU miners and spin it right back around and direct it at the ASIC crowd on every coin ASIC has ever been introduced. So what’s the point with the GPU miners are greedy, selfish, and every other BS negative connotation I’m hearing??

To be completely fair I think the rigidity suddenly around sapling/overwinter is oddly out of place. I mean, these are the same folks who didn’t think it was important to at least have a basic “windows” wallet in hand at launch. If it wasn’t for Mercer and others the project would have continued to alienate non Linux/Mac savy folks. If something as important, yet so basic, as a wallet wasn’t important enough to dedicate time and effort to ensure usability across all major platforms…why is this such a deal break?? The tech that will finally allow Z addresses to go mobile will have to wait a little while longer? We been waiting for that since launch…what’s a couple more months??

You can be pro ASIC if you want, your choice, looks like your going to get what you want regardless how much of the community the team is alienating. But the same people will label us “bad sports” if we feel betrayed and question why we supported Zcash at all now. You want to play naive and wait 6-9 months to think about it. Just man/woman up already and say Zcash will be a ASIC coin already. None of the GPU crowd is really buying that line to be honest. It’s “so difficult”…but all the equihash forks seems to have it under control atm…but not “you”…really? Even The new guys Bitcoin Gold and Bitcoin Private seem to be able to figure it out. But not our Dev team…but they can manage a complicated code change like sapling/overwinter?? In one hand the team is brilliant and can pull off what is expected to be “The Big Deal” for Zcash this year, something we have all been waiting for…finally it’s coming. But the same brilliant people can’t figure out how to keep the algo ASIC resistant. Suddenly it’s just too hard to do somehow…would take too much in effort, can’t possible do it now, it just HAS to wait…and maybe…not really.

[Moderation edit by @daira: deleted implication of “subterfuge”, which is a personal attack, as is the comment “If you can’t make a statement that is clear as crystal, do us a favor and don’t post at all…” Such attacks are against the forum rules; please consider this an official warning @Moordrik.]

Now. Can someone please summon the fortitude, part with the political speak, and just straight up tell the community YAY (fork) OR NAY (Stay ASIC compliant) on ASIC already?? Your going to alleviate a lot of stress for people on both sides of the debate regardless. Either GPU miners need to start planning a new direction or get some much needed stress relief, or the ASIC supports are going to know they made a bad bet on hedging on the Bitmain miner…or they are going to be estatic…and those on the fence afraid to risk, can finally jump on the bandwagon.

First, I’m not pro-ASIC I’m pro-Zcash. I’m still gpu mining. Mining cryptos are based on profit-seeking.

I think the rigidity suddenly around sapling/overwinter is oddly out of place.

Why would the Zcash team waylay their #1 priority of improving the protocol and open up z_addrs to common usage just to make some group of miners happy? Mining is secondary and only at all because some miners are users.

why we supported Zcash at all now

I supported Zcash because of the zk-snark innovation. There are other gpu-only mining protocols like Monero. The problem with Monero is that a private and unknown ASIC will probably be built and nobody will know. You will think it’s gpu only, but it won’t be. That is why ASIC out in the open is the best case out of several bad options.

Can someone please summon the fortitude, part with the political speak, and just straight up tell the community YAY (fork) OR NAY (Stay ASIC compliant) on ASIC already??

“Please decrease the amount of risk we’re taking right now”. Crypto is risky. Mining is risky. You should have known that before you got involved. We are all in the same position so I don’t see why it matters if they announce it now or after they have had time to fully weigh the options.

do us a favor and don’t post at all

I’ll continue to voice my opinion openly if it adds to the discussion (a moderator will tell me if it doesn’t) and I won’t be silenced or intimidated. Keep it civil.

7 Likes

What are you talking about? I use them multiple times a week with zero problems. It’s a button click at this point

1 Like

I mean for mobile wallets and mining to z_addrs via a pool. You’re correct in that you can create and use z_addresses. They aren’t widely usable despite that being Zcash’s #1 innovation.