With you on this 110%.
Yes this. Thank you for articulating my major concerns better then I can. While it may come across as me thinking I know better I want to be clear that I acknowledge that I’m no more informed or educated about marketing then many others in the community. THAT’s why I’m so strongly in favour of adding more diverse sets of people/skills to higher levels in the ecosystem. 37L included.
I truely fear that there is a huge imbalance of skills, views, and biases in this community and it’s going to increasingly hinder Zcash’s ability to grow. While I don’t think in the near term this create an existential problem for Zcash but I do think it drastically reduces of efficiency and effectiveness by factors.
And while it may be important to simply advocate that we try to bring in fresh blood into the community through other kinda of campaigns and advocacy I think we fundamentally need to also need Zcash funding to also be controlled by a more diverse set of people/entities. There are a few ways we can do that.
- Create a more diverse ZCG by adding/swapping in more people
- Assist those in power by hiring advisors/teams that do have the skills
- Create a whole new marketing committee that receives a portion of the dev fund
While writing this I think 3 is the best option. Why do we even want ZCG members muddying the waters of marketing when many have very little experience? It’d be like me, a software engineer, advising the best treatment for medical condition. I might get it right sometimes 
. Wouldn’t it be better to have different set if member/people assessing marketing spend that have at least some OP skills in media and marketing? That would also largely benefit ZCG since grants like 37L take up way too much time for the team which hinders their ability to attend to other grant proposals and the creation of RFPs etc.
So how about rather then proposing 2% funding to Zcash Media I propose we fund (2%) a new committee (e.g. Zcash Media Grant’s) that’s populated by people with skills in media! So who in the community might we invite? Naomi Brockwell, David Boyer, Natasha Mynhier… Who else?
Can we at least all agree ZCG is NOT the most effective way to make marketing decisions and we should at least try to do something to fix it?
In all honesty, I too have questioned the suitability of ZCG when it comes to assessing marketing grants. The reason I questioned that however, was because after working in marketing roles for over a decade in both crypto and some of the largest engineering and architectural institutions in Canada, I came to the conclusion that some of these grants were being assessed for way longer than need be.
For me personally, the Zcash Media grant was a no brainer no. It really shouldn’t have taken months to assess.Their proposed rate was significantly above premium rates for similar work done by marketing firms, and given that Zcash is a scientific project, it just made absolutely no sense to me to award a marketing project the largest grant in Major Grants history.
I don’t think the solution to this is a new committee to assess marketing grants. Rather, I believe that for future committees, it is essential to have a committee member with a background in advertising/marketing.
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Bear in mind that I was a strong proponent of Zcash Media before their launch, my comments supporting them in previous grant threads are a testimony to this. After the April execution though, it’s a hard pass for me that they receive a slice of the dev fund. I also believe that they are great producers and should perhaps stick to production and ZCG should maybe seek out marketing orgs that have an extensive background with crypto assets for content distribution or leverage the community.
That’s fair, and at the very least we need this. But how do we make this happen?
Good question… I don’t have an answer 
Perhaps the ZCG qualifications criteria should be modified a bit more.
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I support this but still fear that adding a single “media/marketing expert” isn’t enough to slingshot the Zcash ecosystem into a more diverse and prosperous makeup of decision makers and influencers. While it may assist in making quicker and better informed ZCG decisions I feel like we should aim to make more systemic changes then that.
@anon35140610 I also appreciate your insights, knowledge, experience and would be excited if you were a member of this imaginary new ZMG committee as someone with prior experience in market roles. To be clear my goal wouldn’t be to stack the board in favour of Zcash Media but simply to be more confidence a correct decision is being made. At the moment I have very little confidence correct decisions are being made in this area which is my primary concern.
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No, my opinions havnt changed. In fact its become more entrenched.
What you are proposing is actually the centralization of the Zcash narrative and marketing. Also, as it has been mentioned before they are not a marketing company, they are a film company. We shouldnt go on decentralizing the disbursment of the dev fund just for the sake of decentralizing. iykyk…
I also want to remind the community that ‘marketing zcash’ isnt exactly in the purview of the ZCG. The commitee ‘may’ fund marketing if it wants to but they dont need to. Its not on their mission statement iirc.
The Zcash Community Grants program (formerly known as ZOMG) funds independent teams entering the Zcash ecosystem, to perform major ongoing development (or other work) for the public good of the Zcash ecosystem.
As a general rule, cryptocurrency projects especially privacy ones should not go on corporate marketing sprees. I think we should stop thinking in terms of corporate marketing groupthink. I dont think Bitcoin ever sponsered F1 or had an ad at the Super Bowl.
Its not about nice graphics or vidoes. Its about people and what they strongly believe in.
(Having a consistant and slick brand does help)
Zcash needs more organic marketing, guerrilla tactics. As a community we are slowly rediscovering our voice and are much more vocal and active online than I think we were 5 months ago. I think we are starting to make a difference. We are being noticed. We need to build, grow and bolster our voice and presence even more. Online as well as offline.
Zcash media can and should supplement that with great content.
But no. Zcash media or any entity shouldnt get any % of the dev fund at this point in time. The current allocation is fine (Tho it could do with some improvements)
Edit: Also no we dont need to modify ZCG qualifications criteria. I actually think ZCG did a grand job evaluating the zcash media grant. They seem highly qualified and capable to me. They came to right decision. I think they understand marketing very well.
No. We dont need to agree at all on this. We dont need to fix it. ZCG has nothing to do with marketing. Only one grant ever has been about marketing. Actually, educational vidoes with a small budget for marketing…
Why is it essential? ZCG doesnt have any main role in marketing Zcash! Where have you gotten the impression that they do?
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Very nice of you to say. 
It recently became a preference of mine to participate in Zcash strictly as a community member with no obligations to anyone. It allows me to contribute most freely and authentically.
P.S. I read the minutes and watched the videos where this grant was deliberated, and I believe ZCG made the right decision. My only concern was that it took quite a bit longer than I thought it should have.
Also, fair point that one individual with a background in marketing may not suffice, however I believe it would be a step in a positive direction!
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4 years after Bitcoin launch searches for Bitcoin was in an overall up trend according to google. Zcash has essentially been in a downtrend since launch. So by doing the same as Bitcoin (limited marketing) we are getting worse results. Are you advocating we can continue this strategy and expect different results in the future?
This is exactly why I asked if we should create a team that does have this purview. Or are you suggesting we discourage marketing/media teams from submitting grant requests? Or are you simply saying we should skill ZCG up to better deal with them?
What if people don’t have a strong belief in privacy and security? Take minimum password requirements and 2FA as an example. All relatively simple things to do but it required organisations forcing it down the users throats before gaining mass adoption of and acceptance. Are you suggesting people will organically start to care? Or are you suggesting it’s okay if Zcash is a niche chain used by those who care?
Does Zcash Want To Steer/Control The Narrative For Private Digital Money?
Zcash Media in my view is all about giving Zcash and the community a larger voice. I have 0 concerns that private digital currencies are going to play a meaningful role in the future of digital money. I also don’t have any major concerns that Zcash will play a part in that future. But I don’t have a lot of confidence that Zcash will be the number 1 method for private transactions and/or have the ability to control or steer the privacy narrative in any significant way.
Take 2FA as an example. There were some serious 2FA players well before Google Authenticator became a thing. Did Google help drive the market towards accepting and embracing better 2FA? Of course. But many of these players have now essentially lost their voice relative to the big players like Google.
If Zcash wants a voice and the ability to influence the privacy narrative in the future we NEED to create that voice. Creating that voice takes time, a lot of effort, and probably a significant amount of money. When Google/Amazon/PayPal decide to force “private digital money” down users throats how loud will Zcash’s voice be without significant marketing efforts? How loud would Zcash’s voice be if we can rapidly create/respond and distribute high quality media content?
When mainstream media report on the state of private digital money who do we want them contact first? Google? Amazon? PayPal? Or do we want them contacting Zcash Media, ZF, ECC, Zooko?
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Firstly, I don’t want us to go on any marketing spending sprees right now. Zcash as a product is not ready for the mass market. Will it ever be? I don’t know…
The failed strategy that has brought us to today is actually not ‘limited marketing’, but rather corporate marketing groupthink within ZF and ECC and the supposed Zcash Brand. Zcash doesn’t stand out in terms of marketing. Zcash brand and marketing is drab, bland, boring, and dull. (I suspect they want it like that).
I am advocating for radical, organic, grassroots, guerrilla, out of the box marketing. Not same old.
I think its in the purview of ECC and ZF to market Zcash. Mostly ECC though. Not ZCG. ECC employs 4 people to do just that. We dont need to skill up ZCG. They took the right decision regarding the huge Zcash Media grant.
We should encourage more devs to submit grants than marketing grants. Yes.
We should encourage educational media grants. But not marketing grants. No.
Now you might ask, how will the education media reach people without marketing? That’s exactly what Zcash media had in their first grant, and the results were a bit disappointing.
I actually do agree with you on your ‘forcing it down the users throats’ point. People like the status quo and convenience. For many people privacy or security isn’t a priority (yet). There is two ways to change that in regards to Zcash.
1, Being in the payments space. Being a better product than Venmo, Cashapp. (And marketing like them)
2, Being in the crypto space. Attracting people that share the values of Privacy, Freedom and Sovereignty. (And having the best product over all other privacy projects (and better governance))
I do think people need to organically care. How else? We cant market our way to adoption.
I wish Zcash were the dominant chain. But, for many factors I fear it will never be. Zcash lost the majority of the community when it decided not to go asic-resistant. ECC and ZF aren’t inclusive and open to outside devs or outside software, more so if its better than theirs. There are major inefficiencies in both the ECC and ZF.
The community is the voice of Zcash. Like bitcoin. Not some marketing company. A million slick videos won’t give us a voice. I disagree. The community is tiny. We cant compensate by running ads.
How many people joined the community or bought Zcash directly because of the Zcash Anthem or watching Zcash Media videos?
Is Zcash, a protocol with values, a community and governance, or is it just a payments protocol?
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I think until a large % of the crypto economy realize the importance of privacy, this will continue. Found an older article about bitcoin which I found interesting:
In the public’s imagination, overnight the bitcoin went from being the currency of tomorrow to a dystopian joke. The Electronic Frontier Foundation quietly stopped accepting bitcoin donations. Two Irish scholars specializing in network analysis demonstrated that bitcoin wasn’t nearly as anonymous as many had assumed: They were able to identify the handles of a number of people who had donated bitcoins to Wikileaks. (The organization announced in June 2011 that it was accepting such donations.) Nontechnical newcomers to the currency, expecting it to be easy to use, were disappointed to find that an extraordinary amount of effort was required to obtain, hold, and spend bitcoins.
IMHO, Zcash today requires extraordinary amount of effort to obtain, hold, and spend. Sure everyone in this forum has it down, and maybe a few friends who you talked to about it. But what about your neighbors family down the street who’s never heard of digital ledgers, let alone private keys. Hell they don’t even know how to use a QR code. And they are suppose to magically start using this technology to survive? This is what needs to be fixed asap. Right now I think we are at the tail end of the speculation era and I’m afraid many bitcoin users will become disappointed in the ultimate outcome of this older technology. Sure it will survive, but it won’t be what most expect. What it accomplished surprised everyone and while it certainly bootstrapped the whole industry, what problems today is it actually going to solve moving forward without privacy? How can we make it easy enough that most folks can actually use it? How much of the world understands enough about this industry to appreciate what is needed for freedom moving forward? CBDC’s are on the way, scary thought, and its going to become increasing obvious what needs to be worked on.
I’ll let others decide on the details but education should be important for everyone and many younger generations are going to consume this education via Media. I think we should strive to meet folks where they are, not where we want them to be. This post became longer than I thought it would, thanks for reading.
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I 100% believe this. It’s strange, and I can’t quite understand the angle. I think the more in the spotlight Zcash becomes, they get concerned that they will lose their tight control of it (talking about the foundation here, mainly).
Zcash Anthem
Lmfao. For me, I got into Zcash from @tm3k’s teaser parachute vid…
Update: Just hit a volcano turkey bag and realized that I think I understand the point that @GGuy is trying to make now. He’s exactly right though. There does need to be more control given to the community (looking at the Foundation here). Just using an example of some other projects: Polygon, YFI, SUSHI, etc. there is a lot more independence and community control, it seems. I think with Zcash the in-n-out menu approach makes the most sense. Do one thing really well and focus on being a critical part of the infrastructure (SSL/HTTPS).
However, what Zcash is truly missing is an application built using it. We should be communicating on that, instead of this. That would increase value immensely. You want to increase shielded transactions? Well there you go. Take ZECPages and ZEMO (and @BrunchTime and @Ziga and maybe @1337bytes and myself) and merge the two into something that can be used to promote Zcash.
For the same reason Lamborghini puts their logo on their cars, this project can have “powered by Zcash” in the footer along with maybe a “funded by ZGC” with a link to both. User adoption => Developer Adoption.
I think lots of people are sleeping on this idea, so I’ll just publicly ask if you 3 want to get together and flesh this out and apply for a grant? Not sure how that will work with @BrunchTime cross-pollinating, but I’m kinda just tired of being bummed and complaining passive aggressively on this forum.
A private social network where you get paid real money to post. Might even need to get @adityapk00 involved. Let’s build a dream team and get it done quickly.
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RN we need to hit the ground running on the important tech, not ways to make money. Stay safe yall.
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This one (the entire thread) has not aged well 
especially after seeing the chronic under performance/ communication void by the Zcash Media team.
If nobody in Zcash makes money, then the entire project is destined to fail. Sad Truths
We need a user product perhaps Zashi can grow into exactly what has been missing for so long.
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Freedom money > Captured money. Irrational numbers are funny things. Now more than ever we need the technology to ensure survival from folks who don’t want freedom to win.
As we can see @gguy’s prediction aged like milk, which is why I will not support any devfund proposal he puts forth.
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I agree with this in a vacuum.
But then if you start to make implications that ZEC is Freedom Money because of its optional, technically challenging privacy features, and especially considering that ZEC hasn’t even outpaced USD inflation… then its hard to agree.
People would like Privacy, but they’re not willing to sacrifice 95% of their wealth over 4-8 years to get it. Instead they’ll continue to gravitate to Bitcoin or Ethereum, where wealth is preserved, the networks are decentralized, and some novel privacy features are also available - which don’t cost ~everything
In years ahead, we need ZEC to have a stars aligned moment. Wealth is increasing, accessibility increasing, usability increasing, network size/ security/ decentralization is increasing, builder teams both decentralizing/ increasing.
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Not everyone. I appreciate the technology and have used it, I’m curious by nature. Let’s see how this shakes down however. (given enough time)
If anyone wants to contribute to free2z, just let me know and I can grant access to the codebase. I can roll out changes to test domain in 5 minutes, QA and send to prod with the touch of a button. It’s easy to work on.
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