Zcash Media 2022-2023

[37L]

Public Meetings
@noamchom As I stated above, we are happy to prioritize public meetings with ZCG going forward. I am glad to know this is valuable to you and will keep this in mind when we return.

ZCG Meetings with Grantees
@tokidoki Thank you for your help in managing the page. Since we have already stated that we are willing to prioritize public meetings in the future, I think any further conversation about how the ZCG should manage their meetings with grantees in general should be moved to a different thread.

Grant is Withdrawn
@Chammy As we stated above, we have withdrawn this current grant, so no further discussion to its makeup is relevant. The only reason this page is still open is because the ZCG has requested it stay open for history when we return.

Behavior on Thread
@Chammy I would also like to remind you that in a setting where we are trying to hear and satisfy the community’s needs, those who speak excessively cruelly or unfairly attack our character are simply invalidating their own points. When we return, our team aims to hear your feedback, so please provide it constructively and without cruelty if you would like us to be able to listen.

Sincerely,
Natasha

[aiyadt]

@37L

As for your question about viewing the meeting. I noticed above that Adi mentioned the meeting video being posted, but I think he may have misspoken. In actuality, at the start of the call when I asked everyone whether or not everyone was comfortable having the video be posted this week, there was not unanimous approval. As such, we agreed to not post it.

To clarify here, there were no objections to the call being recorded before the start of the meeting and the idea was to decide later whether to post the call. There might have been sensitive items that were discussed during the call. If any 37L’s private(not-yet-public) ideas were discussed in the call, @37L is free to retract or skip posting this call.

[37L]

Hi Everyone,

After speaking with ZCG we have approval from all attendees to post the video from our last session. As this video shows and as we have repeatedly stated, all grants in this thread have been officially withdrawn. Any further work will come in the form of a new long term grant posted here in the future, or a short term bridge grant that would be posted in a separate thread.

Zcash Media Grant Discussion (2022-07-21 14_03 GMT-7)_POST.mp4

Thank you,
Natasha

[anon35140610]

Thank you for sharing this, Natasha.

At around the 5:00 minute mark, you mentioned that every single Marketing person at ECC and ZF has raised concerns with you about how hard it is to “market” Zcash. I think you might have misspoken as I have attended comms meetings with you and ECC for a few months now and ZF has not raised such a concern.

At the 47th-ish minute, you also mention that ECC pushed for PR with the 2 last videos, and that the Zcash Foundation also asked for the same - hence why you hired the PR personnel - which in hindsight you feel you shouldn’t have. Again, I fear you must have misspoken here as far as ZF is concerned.

None of these comments are harmful, but it’s my personal preference that the right information be shared.

[zancas]

I think this point is worth reiterating… content created and published now will be ambient for a long time.

Fund this now!

Reward the professionalism and demonstrated quality with the trust it deserves!

I am strongly in favor of funding this proposal.

When will the ZCG next convene? When could this proposal be funded?

[zancas]

I am concerned about delay. Let’s get the funding into the hands of the creators. @37L should be making media… not wrangling with grant proposals.

I am already strongly in favor of whatever @37L proposes, I trust them because they have demonstrated trustworthiness.

[noamchom]

Why rush this? If we buy some time and wait for ZEC value to increase, in a few years it will be easy to fund this proposal to the tune of 2-3 million dollars while costing 50-100% less in the context of zcash coins.

Publishing content for the masses during a crypto winter is non-logical. The masses are only on the look-out for projects like ours during crypto spring and summer cycles.

[zancas]

Are you imagining that the transfer of zcash from ZCG to 37L will somehow burn it?

Are you aware of the current regulatory environment in the US?

Do suppose that content created now will be unavailable in “Crypto Spring”?

Do you have a vested interest in zcash?

[anon35140610]

@zancas

Are you aware of the current regulatory environment in the US?

Speaking of the US regulatory environment, I’ve always questioned whether breaking the Snowden story was a smart idea, from a regulatory standpoint. I don’t believe, at this point, that Zcash content will be the means through which regulators feel moved by the privacy narrative, at least not in the US anyway.

[noamchom]

1. It will burn the bid side of the ZEC-USD market when 37L liquidates them
2. Yes, its cloudy and high-risk to crypto ecosystem organizations (re: Ripple et al)
3. Available, yes. But also stale/ memory-holed and potentially obsoleted by more current Zcash developments and more relevant content created during the next crypto spring
4. Yes. I own many ZEC, I hope that everyone on this forum does. It would be disingenuous not to.

[GGuy]

@noamchom

Why rush this? If we buy some time and wait for ZEC value to increase, in a few years it will be easy to fund this proposal to the tune of 2-3 million dollars while costing 50-100% less in the context of zcash coins.

As @zancas stated any content created now will be available during crypto insert_season_here. But let’s actually work out what this actually means…

Option 1 - Funding Now

Let’s imagine ZCG spend $2m now and in a year or 2 crypto spring hits. Who knows the exact timing but let’s imagine we have:

• 8 videos released (including originals)
• 2 videos complete and awaiting release
• 2 videos in production
• 2 videos written and awaiting production
• 100s of twitter shorts waiting and ready to flood the socials during the next hype cycle - these shorts are created to link to more Zcash info, wallets, and existing Zcash Media YouTube content (both the newer and older videos).

These numbers could all play out different if we (i.e. @37L) discover short form videos produce better outcomes (or some other strategy we haven’t thought of yet).

Option 2 - Fund later

Let’s imagine ZCG. don’t spend now, delay a bit, and in a year or 2 crypto spring hits. Who knows the exact timing but let’s imagine at this point we’d have:

• 2 videos released
• 0 video in production
• 10s of twitter shorts awaiting release to link Zcash Media YouTube content.

Crypto spring/summer hits

None of us know for sure how these 2 scenarios will play out for sure. But we can say with a lot of certainty that almost universally a year of experience makes a team more productive. An experienced team will also almost certainly produce better content. An experienced team also can probably do all this cheaper too. Almost certainly the more positive media being disseminated during a market upcycle is a positive influence on the price of the coin. We’ve also seen how social media and YouTube content can influence tradition media. Even if these effects are only small, 20% price upside here, 20% more productivity there, 20% more effective dissemination, 20% more effective media, 20% more effective call to action, 100% bigger team, 20% more tradition media coverage… all these upsides more then the makeup for the extra 20,000ZEC it cost to fund Zcash Media during a bear market.

If we don’t fund Zcash Media now we might have to wait 6-12months before they can ramp up and produce a single video when we do decide to fund them (depending on their availability). How many Zcash users do we fail to capture in that time? How many investors do we fail to influence? How much price appreciation opportunity did Zcash miss? This is assuming that @37L are still available and haven’t moved on to other things/work. I’d much rather start spending now and be prepared for the next crypto hype cycle/bull run then save ~20,000ZEC. Is saving 20,000ZEC worth missing an opportunity to capture a fresh/new interested market? Almost certainly no/low media coverage during a crypto spring will negatively influence the ZEC price. Even a relatively small 25% negative influence (compared to higher media content and dissemination) on the price of ZEC would more then exceed the the 20,000ZEC extra ZEC it cost to fund Zcash Media now (assuming ZCG hold over 100,000ZEC which they currently do).

What if during crypto spring everyone else also spends millions on media/marketing at the same time? How does Zcash Media stand out in all that noise? Doesn’t starting from a higher subscriber/follower count help break through that noise? Almost certainly yes.

Even if in this bear market the interest in crypto is only 10% of what it was during the bull market the upside for starting media production and dissemination it now is huge. You may attempt to dismiss all these items individually as being small and insignificant. But even so, combined they almost certainly make the extra 20,000ZEC price tag worth it.

So in an attempt to answer your question “why rush this?”… That’s why.

[Chammy]

@GGuy

These numbers could all play out different if we (i.e. @37L) discover short form videos produce better outcomes (or some other strategy we haven’t thought of yet).

This here is what blows my mind, that no one is calling out how crazy it is to be willing to spend 2 million dollars on additional (very expensive) educational videos and use them as an experiment to “see what works”.

There are COPIUOS AMOUNTS of academic research on what drives innovation adoption, and it certainly is not “very expensive documentary films on youtube”.

There’s really no need for us to pay 2 million dollars to 37L to figure that out.

It is insane that anyone is still even considering to fund this.

[Chammy]

“(Technology) diffusion is a very social process that involves interpersonal communication relationships” (Rogers, 2003)

It is “interpersonal channels” (ie. Zooko asking people to “take Zecwallet for a spin”) that have by far the most impact in driving adoption, and at 1/1000th the price tag 37L is quoting.

Educational materials, though very needed, have A LOT less influence in the persuasion stage of the innovation adoption process, and so do “mass media/ cosmopolite” channels as youtube.

In other words giving 2 million dollars to 37L in hopes they will have any meaningful impact on driving adoption of zcash, is an extremely suboptimal way to spend 2 million dollars.

[GGuy]

@Chammy

“(Technology) diffusion is a very social process that involves interpersonal communication relationships” (Rogers, 2003)

I agree, cryptocurrency as a technology does not need to be advertised. But to a layman why would someone use Zcash over Monaro without advertising and education? Or are you suggesting that the best technology always wins?

@Chammy

It is “interpersonal channels” (ie. Zooko asking people to “take Zecwallet for a spin”) that have by far the most impact in driving adoption, and at 1/1000th the price tag 37L is quoting.

Agree’d. I’d definetly hire 1000 Zookos over this proposal. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to conclude a viable way of doing that (or achieving the same outcomes) other then paying for material to assist in that mission.

[Chammy]

@GGuy

Or are you suggesting that the best technology always wins?

Why do you keep doing this?, try to put words on other people’s mouths to make a point?, doing that only shows the weakness of the arguments you try to make.

The sentence you are quoting, and trying to spin, is just a LITERAL quote from the most widely accepted theory on innovation adoption there is, both in business and academia.

@GGuy

Unfortunately I haven’t been able to conclude a viable way of doing that

Oh, I am sure of that.

Then again the fact that you can not figure out something does not mean that it can not be figured out, or that it has not already been figuerd out by others.

As I said several times in the past, there are COPIOUS AMOUNTS of research on what drives innovation adoption, we already know what works and what does not work. We do not need to pay 37L two million dollars just so they can figure out on their own that expensive documentary films on youtube will hardly have any impact on Zcash adoption (as well demonstrated by the close to non existant impact the first set of videos had).

Educational materials through mass media/cosmopolite channels (ie. youtube) is LITERALLY the formula that has the least impact in driving the decision of adopting an innovation.

It is mindblowing that the community has not already binned this ridiculous idea of spending 2 million dollars on even more expensive films in hopes to have any meaningful impact on the adoption of zcash.

It is just ridiculous.

[Angst01]

@GGuy

This is assuming that @37L are still available and haven’t moved on to other things/work.

That’s my biggest concern. 37L is composed of human beings with bills to pay, other interests, etc etc. If we make them wait indefinitely for a project that may or may not get funded, they may well not be available at all or able to devote the necessary time to do things right when the time comes. There are real costs to waiting.

Agree with you on all other points, @GGuy. Just wanted to highlight that as a reason why there needs to be in my view some urgency to getting this started.

I know from my primary field that there are already real risks in being over focused on easily quantifiable metrics in areas that are primarily about complex human behavior, emotions and communications. There is an ongoing reproducibility crisis across many fields of science that highlights this - if the world of business and “innovation research” appears unscathed, it is almost certainly because there is no motivation to test it out. To be perfectly transparent I am not especially familiar with the research on “innovation adoption” specifically (a topic on which, I am intensely skeptical - if there was a predictable path the popularizing innovations, I suspect the world would be a very different place. Not to mention the likely inherent contradictions of a field dedicated to mining the past for data about…doing things differently from the past. After all, isn’t the whole premise of innovation that anything, including the process of innovation itself, can be changed?). But a huge part of my job for many years has been working in and interpreting all sorts of research - clinical, bench science, quality improvement, etc. etc. Quantitative research has its place, but always tends towards pointing to most easily quantifiable correlate of some sort of outcome being the most important, rather than the most likely causative factors (though perhaps more complex/continuous, rather than discrete elements). I can give many, many examples of this, quite a few leading to absolutely perverse outcomes that waste everyone’s time and money.

On a side note I fear we are talking past each other and wonder if perhaps this thread should be closed until @37L submits a new grant.

[Chammy]

@Angst01

the research on “innovation adoption” specifically (a topic on which, I am intensely skeptical

It is plain old behavioural economics. Are you really intensely skeptical of the discipline of behavioural economics?!

There’s Nobel prize winning research on this, for Christ’s sake!

[Chammy]

@Angst01

they may well not be available at all or able to devote the necessary time to do things right when the time comes.

That would be a very positive thing to happen to Zcash.

They do not have the right skill set that is needed. They really don’t.

Funding 37L with 2 million dollars is a certain way to extract value from the community, not adding it.

[GGuy]

@Chammy

Why do you keep doing this?, try to put words on other people’s mouths to make a point?

I’m sorry I put words in your mouth. Let me try rephrasing my point without putting words in your mouth.

Historically doesn’t technology adoption often include vast amount of spend on education/advertising/marketing? Take the adoption of personal computing for example. In the early days of personal computing adoption my understanding is IBM and Apple spent tons of money on advertising. Is it fair for me to suggest that if IBM or Apple hadn’t spent so much money on education and marketing the companies share of sales would have been drastically worse? Isn’t Zcash just a product that requires education and advertising to compete with the competition just as IBM and Apple did during the early days of PCs?

[GGuy]

@Angst01

Just wanted to highlight that as a reason why there needs to be in my view some urgency to getting this started.

Thanks @Angst01. I agree with your points. My major reason for the need for urgency is the exponential increase in the rate of technology adoption.

None of those graphs above even begin to tell the story of how tablet ownership rose 9% in a single month in the US.

These stats are from 10 of more years ago. I suspect adoption of technology is far faster today.

Cryptocurrency “users” are somewhere between the 0-20% range and even more if you include people who aren’t active users but have owned or played with a cryptocurrency at some time in their life. I assume daily users of crypto is somewhere between 0%-1% of the US population. This is where I think the next phase of adoption is going to happen.

If the expontional increase in the rate of technology adoption continues then the next adoption phase, which I predict will be driven by using crypto as a method of payment, is going to be measure in months not years. All it’s going to require is the right player, it could be Apple, Google, a massive POS provider, banks, making cryptocurrency payment in stores seamless. Once it starts we’ll be lucky to even have enough time to approve a @37L proposal and finish a single video without missing the vast majority of the next adoption phase.

If we miss the opportunity to capture new users during the next adoption phase it’s going to be extraordinarily hard and expensive to catch-up.