Anyone still GPU mining ZCash?

To be fair and objective right now we have some shifting and that’s the reason the difficulty stays about the same.

But this is in my opinion more short term than long term. It’s just logical that the more Asics get on the network the less gpu hashpower is going there. We can see it allready on the total different miner pool distribution on the Zcash network that a huge shifting is going on, not even a doubt here.

In my opinion right now the rented and multi-auto hashpower that jumps in on higher prices/lower difficult is shifting away to other higher prices/lower difficultyi projects and algos. Just logical.

When nicehash (other hashpower renting services) and auto-multi pools take the equihash asic hashpower as well, which isn’t the case currently, and more asic units are shipped/installed than the difficulty will go up as the stedy hashrate without Nicehash/multiauto pools increases. How much is related to the batch sizes and of course new releases from known/unknown asic producers.

This said, the current picture honestly doesn’t say anything about the real difficulty future coming as its just a shifting process right now.

Some of this is shifting, but that’s exactly the problem. Bitcoin (Zcash’s code base) mining was originally designed so that an increase in difficult causes the coins become more rare. This increases network security and the price of the coin as a result.

In the current situation, gpu miners just switch to something else rather than being forced to mine zec at a higher difficulty. This causes the price to remain flat rather than increasing as it should. It’s not much of a pressure-cooker if the lid is open.

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That’s happening all the time and the main problem with flexible gpu mining.

Just as a sidenote as it fits in with gpu shifting/switching: I have a larger stake in Electroneum, a coin that forked about 2-3 weeks ago away from asics due community pressure. While the fork went on the Electroneum team had to buy ALL the hashpower from nicehash to have at least a somehow working network for several days. Right now the whole network is driven ONLY by nicehash/autswitch pools and some real dedicated to the Electroneum project mining pool has just some kh/s hobbiest hashrate… Even worse, the massive nicehash power comes only in when difficulty is really low. Useless to say this is a major problem now !

@boxalex @root

I’m struggling to understand why coin-swapping is a problem exclusive to or even predominantly associated with GPU users. What incentive is there, currently (and in the future aside from hardfork) for (200,9) Equihash ASIC operators to keep their hash power on one coin and refrain from hopping/chasing profits like all of us (sarcasm) fair-weather GPU miners (/sarcasm)?

Why it is associated with gpu? Uhmmm, i would say because only them have the ability to change onto every coin on every algo, beside some custom FPGAs.

There is a huge difference if for example an Asic is bound to an algo with 10 coins and you have for example 100.000 Asics on it. However you turn it, there will be always hashrate on each of these 10 coins.

Now if an Asic would have the ability, like a gpu, to choose from 124 algos and 2500 coins it would be a different story, but that’s not the case.

Not sure what’s that hard to understand that coin-swapping/switching/hopping btw Asics and GPU isn’t just the same… Actually there are even some Asic Algos just for 1 coin, absolutly making it impossible to swap even to 1 other coin, examples Tensority and Bytom, Blake 14r and Decred, Blake 2b and Sia, LBRY and LBRY Credit, Quark and Quark and a lot others with no others or very very limited choices.

Just explaining it unbiased that there is just a huge difference in the possibility and ability of switching/swapping/hopping/.

A fairly crude attempt at the end to balance the condescending tone of your post by simply asserting that your opinion is ‘unbiased’.

Honestly, if you distill down your argument, it’s simply one of scale; fewer choices. There’s no fundamental difference. Honestly, I find it insulting that you’d even use it. Here’s a mathematical example: what’s the difference between 0 * 1 & 0 * 1,000,000. A vast majority of those “2500 coins” that you mention aren’t worth the price of the silicon upon which they’re written (outright scams, weak development teams, antiquated technologies, solutions to made-up problems, et al). Straw-man argument #1.

Furthermore, let’s stay focused: this is a Zcash forum and we’re talking about the Equihash algorithm. I’m glad there are other coins out there with sole claim to certain algorithms, and I’m happy that some of them have also have ASICs that, therefore, cannot swap coins. That has nothing to do with Zcash/Straw-man #2. We are talking about an algorithm that is currently utilized by multiple economically viable coins (as of today).

Feel free to take another stab at it; I welcome the discussion, but I’d ask you to address the stated question rather than supplying answers to others not posed.

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How can it be focused on the equihash algo and Zcash if it’s about gpus that right now could be on Zcash for 2 minutes and in 3rd minute on a coin nobody heared about ever that is, as you said not worth the silicon you mine it with?

You ask me about the difference btw gpu hopping and asic hopping. As soon as we talk about hopping it can’t be anymore related to just 1 algo in my opinion. Now if you want that we talk only about hopping/switching within one algo, be it equihash, ok, but we won’t get the full picture. I honestly doubt there is any sense in it that way and again and honestly, i write this unbiased.

Just as an other absolutloy real example. Take nicehash. As soon as for some reason difficulty gets down for a given algo and coin, massive hashpower gets shifted from one algo to another. Best recent example is when daily the time stamps attack on Verge and the lyra algo occur and a sudden the price for Lyra per 1080ti goes up for some time up to 30 USD for the time being as massive hashpower for short time is bought there.

Setup a rig or some gpu cards on autoswitch and wonder where your cards get switched all the time at what short time high prices. Seems you seriously underestiminate services like nicehash if you don’t want to take into account these massive hashrate shifting btw. different algos.

And actually the best indicatator on Zcash right now is indeed that difficulty is NOT rising at all, no matter there are 1000 Innosilicons with 50k Sol each and nearly about 8000 Z9 minies with 10k-17k Sol shipped and mostly online allready. Not even taking into account private mining operations nobody knows with what hashrate it’s done. Maybe i miss something , but that’s the logical picture i see when it comes to a lot of rented hashpower that doesn’t for sure get shifted to higher difficulty low price coins but always shifted to low difficulty high price coins…

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I have to say, this thread has been immensely helpful and intelligent. I only recently began mining Zcash on a single 1050Nvidia card on my laptop. I had to run the thing for 2 days straight on top of a baking tray with a fan to get even a minimum payout on flypool.

After realizing that it’s not worth burning out my machine I decided to upgrade my unit to a twin 1070ti running close to 1,000Sol/S with overclocking. I switched over to nanopool to get a better payout rate.

Then decided to upgrade to an ASIC 2 weeks later, after comparing the ROI to my GPU unit, that I just bought less than 2 months ago. And I’m waiting for my ASIC to arrive so that I can amp up my hash rate and really get into the game.

It’s interesting to see how concerned many people are with the introduction of ASICs to this ecosystem when many of you guys are mining with serious rigs. Some of you dudes have 20, 30, 50 or more GPUS! to me that’s nuts.

I began mining Zcash for several reason:

First the anonymous nature of the coin.
Second the fact that it’s not ASIC dominated (yet)
Third that it was immensely undervalued.

As of this writing is stands at #22 on coinmarketcap at $174.85 price and only $737 Million Market cap. When you consider the explosive growth rates expected in cryptocurrencies the Zcash project has great potential.

Considering the amount of coins that are in circulation, and across numerous blockchains you have to analyze the impact any change has to the coins image. Why are people using Zcash, and for what purpose? Why not Bitcoin? Why not Litecoin? Why not Dash? Etc.

I am no expert in algorithm programming, and I apologize if I ever sounded like one. But if you modify the main code of ZEC it ceases to be ZEC, and will be something different, will it not? Although I am not familiar with the parameters of 144,5 versus the current configuration. I am sure any hardware in the future will catch up to the Equihash modification.

If profitability is the question, it is far more profitable to mine with an ASIC over a GPU rig. If I spent 2800$ to build a rig that makes me 2.8$ per day, why would I not spend 850$ on one that make me 28$ per day? It seems like some easy math to me guys.

For me I’m more interested in getting Zcash recognized as a leader in innovation. So many people know about Bitcoin, but so few know anything about Zcash. Let alone mine the stuff!

When you look at the trade volumes of ZEC on any major exchange they are quite low. Rarely ever are they in the top 5 or 10 even. My impression is few people know about it even less use it to transact.

So if you consider that most of the people here are because they feel strongly about the project, or they are doing it for profits, consider that Zcash is a great great project whether your mining it GPU’s which most of us are, or ASICs which will do nothing more than serve your purpose by either allowing you more hashing power, either through purchase or rental from a hash provider, which will surely increase the value of the coins and the prominence of ZEC within the crypto universe of which there are many options, and elevate Zcash value, influence and acceptance.

I think this project has value, strength and intelligence behind it.

I’m on board and staying on board mining ZEC

/end

Just an update on the z9 mini killer. People are now getting the ASIC and running tests on YouTube. Some guys like Vosk coin and the technical. Have found that overclocking gives that little beast 16,000 sols. That is a gpu destroyer. That is 20 x GTX 1080ti for the next batch price of $900 US.
I have not seen reliable reviews by miners of the innosilicon A9. But there are a few claiming up to 60,000 sols @ 700 watts. Just one puts a 100 farm of GTX 1080 out of business.
Z9 first batch have arrived. Let’s see the network difficulty over the next few days. I bet the spike Will come in waves as people bounce between coins.

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Try 3800 gpus like me lol

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Difficulty is spiking. When I check this morning it was 9m, then at noon 10m, now 4pm it’s 11m, I wonder how high it will go as the z9s should all be coming online. I suspect there will be a lot of flipping from coin to coin as difficulty spikes.

13m on zec. difficulty is ramping up with the z9. Now you can buy 2 a9s for $10k. That is 100,000 sols of hashing power. That for 1300w. GPUs are toast when theses things land.

I’m still mining zec on my one rig (I only got two rigs, the other is on ETH). I know its not the most profitable, I’ll likely switch and trade into zec. I don’t want to switch because this is what I’ve been mining since I started mining.

It’s important to note that all Innosilicon’s are pre-mined.

Why is that important to note? That my friend is a suspicious statement.

Why is that important to note? That my friend is a suspicious statement.

So people looking to buy them know that they are not getting a new product. This information was divulged in Zooko’s interview with Innosilicon’s owner. In my opinion pre-mining is dishonest.

As for your suspicion, I have nothing secret to disclose. I’m not paid by Bitmain or anyone else to give information or opinions of any kind other than my own.

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Although that’s an accepted trend that is rarely the case. Difficulty does != price. It takes a community of miners, investors, and traders to move price in any direction. The direction will always be determined by market sentiment, not how high the difficulty has risen.

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Im still GPU mining ZEC on one of my rigs with rx580 nitros fitted. Over the last week/2 weeks though I have noticed that the returns are no where near what they were about a month back. OK we all know that the difficulty is increasing so shares are taking longer but Im taking about an almost 50% drop in return over the last month - 6 weeks. Fortunately Ive got solar panels offsetting a lot of my power costs but TBH Im really considering moving out of ZEC. The main reasons being:

  1. Economical viability is no longer there
  2. They are ignorant to financially supporting 3rd party developers (whos hard work after all keeps their coin alive) notably Zcash4win / win4zec. Wake up team the world now uses windows so wallets are needed. ZEC pay the man hes keeping your pockets lined.
  3. I do not see why we should support a coin that doesn’t stick to their original sales pitch (asic resistance)
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No! Bro’s - zec
Asic will destroy the crypto currency.

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I feel the time is running out for GPUs. Anyone plan on buying the 1180? Or why bother with 16k and 50k Asics on the network?