While infinite supply is technically mostly correct in the case of monero (0.3XMR per 1 minute) it’s really low and as said, there are a lot of real good arguments why it has been choosen like that.
Just adding these numbes so in further discussions you are better prepared:
Just some more thoughts after there is another apply:
As said, with the offensive style you have choosen you might be lack of the ZF support as i personally think that’s not what they want to be involved in (just my personal opinion!).
Thought about infinite issuance. First it’s up how big the inflation rate is in my opinion. Second, IF a currency wants to be a daily payment everyday option there is NO way to bypass an infinite supply, enough it’s at a good choosen inflation rate. There are really a lot and good arguments towards a soft low infinite emission rate which would take me too long to explain why i personally (and not only me) thinks this has way more benefits than negatives in future.
But as it’s your project you make it of course as you like and prefer, just adding that i would be very carefully with the “infinite” argument, especially Monero.
yes, exactly! pure offense! also, twitter’s not good for explaining anything in depth. they can explain why infinite inflation is a good thing, and i can say infinite inflation is infinite inflation. this is how memetics works.
this account is a test account that’s A/B testing different things. probably will be abandoned in favor of a much larger account when time’s right.
fiat currency is infinite (until failure) too, and more private. scarcity is a main component of sound money. probably one of the main reasons bitcoiners don’t feel threatened by XMR.
i don’t care for burn proposals. implies your coin is worthless. nobody burns anything of value.
good luck with that. especially on the inflation issue.
You have rebranded shitposting to memetics.
Yup, and now there is you saying that this account was yours and you did use it to shit post and you are abandoning it for the sake of “optics”. And why only probably?
That is missing the point entirely. the problem with fiat that bitcoin tried to fix. was quantitive easing. and the govts taking funds directly from people (see Greece for an example) to pay it’s debts.
How does monero enable either of these things? it doesn’t (it prevents both). how does bitcoin? (hint it is to do with forking) - how does zec (hint it is the same as bitcoin, but “the trademark” clause to try to kill other forks, monero uses the “giving up privacy”)
You have more than just the twitter account to explain things on here. Please use me as an example, of how you are going to back up your claims. You can do it in long form on here.
You are asking for money from the foundation and by extension the community. I think it is reasonable to ask you can actually back this up when challenged.
what? these seem contradictory statements.
You haven’t read my posts on it. All mine do not take coins out of circulation - the idea is they can be dropped in where other proposals mention burn.
ZEC total supply - 21 million
XMR total supply - infinite
shitposting/memetics basically the same thing.
you’ve been hostile with me on several occasions, and obviously we don’t see eye-to-eye, so i’m going to hit the gym, and not take the bait on this. have a good one!
I am sorry you see my posts as hostile. You will get much worse with your master plan from the other communities.
And I have maybe been hostile to you once when you were asking people to downvote a small youtube channel. That is not several times.
you asked for feedback, I gave you some.
I wrote two of your proposals for you! we are on the same side. - Who are you trying to win over? Correcting misinformation aggressively is okay, sort of. Being nice is always better, imho.
Putting out statements that are very hard to defend just paints a massive target on you. especially when you target another coin for no real reason.
Really? so you want a zfnd grant just to shit post? I am confused. I thought you were going to use memes to make zcash the thing at the front of peoples minds by correcting misinformation and promoting the usecases of zcash over those of bitcoin. (no quantative easing, no govt involvement + others)
If you wont respond to me, please respond to boxalex’s concerns, these two in particular. - he is also part of this community and also on your side. in regards to zcash (like I am)
I genuinely don’t get what you are doing with this infinite money stuff. especially in the case of XMR.
i’ll leave it at this - to become a real currency a thing needs to go through several stages: collectable—>money—>currency
to become money; the thing needs scarcity (one of the main tenets of sound money). if a thing doesn’t become money, will never become true currency (unless an entity like government forces it).
XMR community has been attacking ZEC’s inflation for years, but i always found that funny considering XMR has infinite supply. this is a subject that should be talked about more.
due to infinite inflation - XMR is not sound money.
side note - the “official” campaign i want to run will probably not involve XMR very much. i was just excited the XMR community is starting to use my force memed term “infinite” in reference to their inflation.
Are you sure you understand the definition of sound money correctly?
Sound money is money that is not prone to sudden appreciation or depreciation in purchasing power over the long term, aided by self-correcting mechanisms inherent in a free-market system.
Again kek, that infinite inflation not sound money is so weak it will mostly backfire.
I would immediatly argument that exactly this soft infinite inflation/issuance makes it more sound money than ZEC because it balances lost/non accessable coins/wallets. If you read the definition about sound money someone hardly can not agree to this argument in my opinion.
That’s why i said earlier a everyday daily payment option MUST have some inflation/issuances or it will not be able to stay one for longer. One of the reasons BTC, again in my opinion has 0 chance to become a payment option long term, but will be just an asset.
Trying to think about lay-friendly language. These all feel clunky but I’m just brainstorming and you, my smart compatriots will certainly improve on my ideas:
“With ZEC, all coins are created equal” (add some kind of visual representation/news re: btc blacklist)
ZEC:
21M coins&
Screaming PoW&
Not Creepily Public
“You wouldn’t send copies of your checkbook to every national intel agency and crime syndicate. Why would you use BTC?”
Mate, you should indeed always try to dig a bit deeper. Limited supply doesn’t mean some cutted supply but just limited, read the correct definition for the 6 characteristics of money:
First, to serve as an effective medium of exchange and store of value, money must be durable . Durability is when an item is able to withstand all the hardships and is still able to maintain to be undamaged and usable after a long term of usage. (SubraMoney, 2011) Durability is crucial for money to be able to perform the following functions of medium of exchange and store of value. Coins and paper bills are made to perform and to act as the currency. Nowadays, Money is manufactured with the materials such as paper, metal and plastics, which results to a long lasting medium. (SubraMoney, 2011)
Portability , which also serves as a medium of exchange, (Money Characteristics, 2011) means that money can be movable from place to place to be used as monetary transaction to be exchanged for goods and services. Portability also means that consumers are now able to carry money along with them to be used as transactions for goods and services. In modern days, money is carried from one location to another without needing much effort as all types of money such as cash notes, coins and cards are carried easily in a wallet. (SubraMoney, 2011)
Furthermore, divisibility is a characteristic which means the money can be divided into small units and that it can be used in exchange for goods and services. As to function as the medium of exchange, as it is divisible, it can be used to purchase all kinds of goods with different values. As money functions as the medium of exchange it must have denominations to be traded for all goods and services, and everything in between. (Money Characteristics, 2011)
Moreover, uniformity means that all types of the same denomination of money must consist of purchasing power. It is a characteristic to perform the function of standard of deferred payments. (SubraMoney, 2011)
Limited supply is a characteristic which helps in storing the value of money, meaning that constraints on the amount of money in the monetary circulation ensure that values remain constant for the currency. Currently most of the respective country’s government has the responsibility to control an adequate money supply based on market with their monetary policies, such as expansionary monetary policy and contractionary monetary policy. (SubraMoney, 2011)
Acceptability supports the function of medium of exchange. The essential quality of money is that it must act as an item being acceptable to all, without having any hesitation in the exchange for goods and services. Acceptability means that everyone must be able to accept the money for transactions. Money is universally accepted around the world as a universal mean for transaction. (SubraMoney, 2011)
Lastly, the characteristic of non-counterfeitabilit y which functions as the store of value means that money cannot be easily duplicated. As money cannot be easily duplicated, it prevents the unrestricted and illegal creating of duplication of money. Besides, preventing the duplication of money to happen is one of the main reasons of government existence. (Money Characteristics, 2011).
You took the limited supply absolute literaly, but that’s not how it’s meant to be.
is there a difference between “limited supply”, and “infinite supply”? only difference between dogecoin, and monero is the rate at which their infinite supply’s issued.
limited - restricted in size, amount, or extent; few, small, or short.
infinite - >> limitless << or endless in space, extent, or size
the very definition of infinite is “limitless”. XMR has no cap, so the supply of XMR is limitless. limited is the literally opposite of infinite. believe my argument stands. monero is not sound money.
Yes, there is. The problem here seems that you apply the wording literally which isn’t the intention, at least in my opinion, when it come to limited supply. A good definition i found is:
The resources that we value—time, money, labor, tools, land, and raw materials—exist in limited supply. There are simply never enough resources to meet all our needs and desires. This condition is known as scarcity.
This means that no matter it’s a continous process of gaining these resources they are still limited, hence limited supply.
Infinite is defined as: having no limits or boundaries in time, space, extent, or magnitude
In my opinion a good example for infinite supply would be that at any given time the issuance can be changed to whatever they/someone wants.
I think the correct definition would be:
Limited supply: coins like Monero and others that have a rule attached that can not be changed.
Fixed supply: coins like ZEC, BTC and such where it’s clear that just a given number of coins is issued no matter what.
I think the above makes it clear that the terms perfectly apply: Limited supply versus Fixed supply.
This said it would be as well wrong to refer to ZEC as limited supply as it’s a fixed supply see definition of fixed supply:
Fixed Supply . If supply is fixed , an increase in demand results in a higher market price but no change in quantity.
how much monero will be issued in it’s lifetime? answer is - nobody knows! you know why nobody knows? it’s because XMR supply is infinite, not fixed or limited. infinite supply means infinite supply.
It’s limited because you can calculate it for every year you want actually and it can not be changed up or down in any time period. It’s a constant limited supply.
But of course if you just want to apply your personal standards, than of course in your point of view you’re right, it’s just a very weak unargumented thesis that can’t hold up and won’t convience anybody that has common economical knowledge. As said, it’s your project and you can make whatever claims you want there.
Maybe it’s my vault that i thought you want to have argumented reliable information and comparison backuped with facts and arguments and not just some unargumented populism not counting facts.
In that case discussing here doesn’t make any sense either mate. Just publish what you think and hope & pray it doesn’t do more harm than good.
it’s not limited by definition. here’s how i view it. if X has a total supply of 10000000000000000000000000000000… even though the total supply would be high; one could subjectively argue the supply is limited/fixed. you cannot tell me what XMR’s total supply will be throughout it’s lifetime because you don’t know when the world will implode - which is the only way XMR’s supply becomes finite.
it’s limited by definition as you can calculate it for every given year. There is a mechanism that does not allow to produce more than that what can be calculated, hence limited.
As said, that’s your view that does not consider clear definations.
It would be fixed, not limited.
That’s not an argument if you throw in a phrase like “when the world implodes” and it’s not needed to know. What counts is that it can be calculated for every year you choose, be it 2025 or 2247 and that it can not be changed no matter if demand increases or not. If it would be infinite and the demand would increase more than the issuance it would be necessary that more coins get issued/created to satisfy the increased demand, that’s not going to happen and that’s the other limited supply argument.
