Future of Zcash dev funding — megathread / everything in one place

Community Collaborations protocol
#28

ATM there is no light at the end of the tunnel, its just a freighttrain coming your way.

We are in the wrong tunnel atm. I think, it should be several Zips combined. Then on the other hand my biggest problem occurs, how to combine them, how to vote on what stays and what has no future.
I stilll stand on the voting proces if that gets inplanted, how ?
1 Zec 1 Vote ?
Community wants something, ECC can overrule ?
Only people who are involved here can vote ?

All mentioned above have flaws, I am aware of that, but didnt realy read a proposal that tackles that in a way that will suit everybody.
On the other hand, on a microlevel everybody has different wishes, Miners are different from Hodlers or Traders, but in the long run alll have the same wish I guess, a Coin that grows to his full potential and has profit for all. ( Yes, Profit, some may not like the word, but in the end this is what is important for all groups involved and I think it’s important that all groups feel equaal in this )

The potential to be a top coin still is here ( just read the interview with the Twins, they still believe big time in Zcash ) But time is running out.
And maybe it’s not my call, but at times where a big fundamental change is going on or needed, This should have top prio of the ECC and not retweeting a friendly fork. And once again, not to bash Ycash, but without Zcash or a damaged Zcash, Ycash will be gone too.

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#29

I think you’re making a good point, Alex.

Andrew’s proposal was highlighted because he’s a member of our board. @aristarchus was one of the first community members to articulate a proposal, so that was also exciting. Placeholder is the first institution besides ECC or ZF to seriously engage with this emergent governance thing we’re doing, and their submission was especially polished as others have noted.

But, all of that said, my reasoning doesn’t particularly matter, because it still gives the appearance of favoring certain proposals over others, and that’s not appropriate for the Zcash Foundation, at least not at this stage. So today I’m going to do a Twitter thread highlighting each of the proposals individually; hopefully that will be a step toward balance.

@anon75406386 I think we need to discuss a bit more before turning these into ZIPs, although that should certainly be done soon. The list has quite a few proposals — I think we should try to identify common mechanisms or goals, and figure out which proposals can be combined. Today I’m going to read through all of these again and see what commonalities there are — if a suggestion turns up in every proposal, or a majority of them, that’s a strong signal.

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Future of Zcash dev funding — high signal, low noise
#30

Hi,

I think the way you engage with the community is really good. I understand sometimes it may cause confusion but I would really hate to see your activity stifled because of formalities.

I don’t have much to suggest in the way of a fix, but I do think your conduct and when you are acting as a forum mod, non foundation related person with inside knowledge (like personal posts), and official foundation representative is very clearly distinct. (to me at least)

Creating a separate account for announcements might mean you do not get notified of replies and people might @ that address rather than you.

Something that I have seen you do and I think works very well is if it is an official question you normally ping acityinohio for a formal response.

I think it also helps newbies and me that when something comes up I can @ you, its like you are a centralising force for the foundation on the forum.

Ohh just had a thought, you could have a flag on a post, you know like when a mod tells you off for derailing a thread it goes in orange. Why not something similar which highlights the post as the official stance of the foundation. That way any of the foundation can do it, and I would make it easier for people to spot the official info because it is in green or whatever.

It might mean you double post to a person with an official response to part of their question and a second post with personal opinion. The more I think about this the more I like the idea.

But like I said before I don’t have an issue with distinguishing the difference. I can see how other people might though.

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#31

I feel like the easiest thing would be an equivalent of mod color, which the moderators apply to a post when acting in that capacity. If I had something like that for official announcements, it would help to clarify when I’m speaking for ZF versus just me. I’ll think about a good way to do that.

Edit: I just realized that @mistfpga literally suggested this and I basically rephrased the suggestion. :woman_facepalming:

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#32

that’s exactly what I was trying to describe, just badly and with more words, lol.

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#33

I shared all of the proposals in this Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/ZcashFoundation/status/1149472261985845249 @boxalex

Unfortunately it’s a Friday afternoon, and Donald Trump tweeted about bitcoin yesterday, so no one is paying attention right now. I will retweet them all on Monday — just added to my to-do list :slight_smile:

@Shawn should I remove your proposal from the list above, since you’re no longer planning to submit it as a ZIP?

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Future of Zcash dev funding — high signal, low noise
#34

Can we have something similar for ECC employees? I think Nathan says it best here.

Would a bounty help get this done? im willing to put up 1 monero towards it. - they don’t have to use it but id like to see the feature. :slight_smile:

edit @sonya is the arbiter of who gets the bounty should multiple submissions (doubtful) appear and she is also able to claim the bounty if she implements it.

There is only 1 monero total on offer from me. It might get spilt up. And to be clear, we need mod colour for the foundation official posts and a different mod colour for official ECC posts.

The time limit on this is 3 months.

Zcash Protocol Hangout, Dev Fund Edition
#35

We’re already marked with our affiliations:

50%20PM

Personally I think it would be an inappropriate special privilege for ECC employees to have something like mod color here.

#36

Yes but that affiliation can cause issues.

I am not saying give them mod powers. Just the power to highlight a post as an official ecc representative rather than as “personal opinion with potential inside knowledge”

I get 100% where you are coming from. My bounty still stands even if it is just for the foundation. and it has to be a separate colour from orange. My bounty is to make your life easier, and that of the community’s easier to sift official info from non official info.

If what gets put in place makes you happy then I am happy and will pay the bounty.

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#37

Ah, sorry, I just connected the dots with our conversation upthread. I don’t think a literal equivalent of mod color is a good idea. It would be confusing, since ECC and ZF employees don’t have any special authority on the forum unless they are moderators. I don’t want people to come in here, unfamiliar with the community, and not know which color is which, etc. When the only highlighted posts are mod posts, it’s clear. So a different “I’m speaking in an official capacity” signifier would be better.

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#38

Like a quote box that is a different colour and says Official Foundation Position: I like the idea of different colours even if it is just the highlight on the =Topic part of the post.

So a post from a normal person at the ECC would look like

Really, Tardigrades.

Then a post from you might look like:

But I think bunnies are the real mascot.

that seems easier to implement?

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#39

(Thats pretty hilarious! :rofl:)

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#40

Official announcement: No later than August 6, the Zcash Foundation will release a detailed evaluation of community proposals for sustainable Zcash development. @acityinohio will explain the Foundation’s current thinking and plans for structuring community feedback.

(This will be tweeted by the @ZcashFoundation account tomorrow morning, in case anyone is wondering.)

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Future of Zcash dev funding — high signal, low noise
#41

Proposals that I suggest combining before turning them into ZIPs:

“Do nothing, let FR expire” proposals:

(Note: Since this is the default course, see @daira’s note on ZIPs that don’t require protocol changes.)

“Miner’s choice” proposals:

Proposals that I think could be combined, but the suggestion is more tentative since the overlap isn’t as large:

“Voting / community choice” proposals:

“Allocate directly to ZF or ECC” proposals:

Most unique one, IMO: Dev Fund Proposal : Continued from block rewards with a halving schedule @ChileBob

  • Funding continues from block rewards at (XXX per block)
  • Funding follow a halving schedule (every XXX blocks)
  • Funding stops when it reaches block (XXX)

Edit notice / correction: @amiller pointed out that his proposal should have been in the “Miner’s choice” category rather than the “Allocate directly” category. He’s right, so I moved it.

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Placeholder Considerations: Resources, Governance, and Legitimacy in NU4
Future of Zcash dev funding — high signal, low noise
#42

I’ll summarize the main bullet points of mine just to kind of get a better idea of how to compare

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#43

Nathan’s quick-and-dirty guide to the ZIP process: Proposal authors, please read: Help making ZIPs

@mistfpga @jj6 @amiller @dontbeevil @boxalex @SydneyPete @anon16456014 @aristarchus @Autotunafish @Shawn @cburniske @mlphresearch @ChileBob: You don’t strictly have to decide right now, but the sooner you make a decision about whether you’re going to steward your proposal toward becoming a ZIP, either on your own or in collaboration with others, the more time there will be to make it a strong ZIP and work on getting buy-in.

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#44

I will do mine, but as pointed out by Daira, I don’t think @jj6 uses the forums much. Can this be message be replicated on GitHub please.

We might be able to come to consensus on what each one of us is trying to get across, that being said. I have noted some potential differences in a response to Nathan. I will edit my zips and then edit this with either the link to the thread about mine and @jj6’s proposals.

If people want help with their zips, or feel they want someone to follow through on their zip, message me and we can sort something out. I will champion zips I disagree with to the best of my ability.

Basically anything I can do to make this happen, I will. just ask.

EDIT: Done.
@sonya - These are the differences I see, - Dev Fund Proposal: No dev dund, let FR expire, market decides

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#45

I think my proposal fits better as a component of others. Its not even close to a complete proposal, its just an attempt to add time based parameters for block funding that others may find useful.

If anyone would like to merge my idea I’d be happy to explain it further.

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#46

Do you think it fits with my ideas? I am open to all suggestions. but core values cannot be broken.

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#47

Not really.

Mine assumes a continued funding stream from block rewards (with some extra parameters), whereas yours are the ‘status quo’ or on a ‘voluntary’ basis.

Differing ‘core values’, so we’ll just have to agree to disagree :wink:

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