Is Zcash Still For You?

[Lisfin]

With how much influence Zooko has on Zcash, and the statements he has made below, I dont think Zcash is for me anymore.

Unofficially Proposed 6 months ago - still he has not provided any proof this is a good idea.

Announcing Zcash Blossom and proposed feature goals

I propose that people who opt-in to mining the new algorithm receive time-locked coins. Currently the coinbase for finding a block is 10 ZEC that is time-locked for 100 blocks. I propose that for blocks found with the new algorithm, it would instead be 50 timelocked utxos worth 0.2 ZEC each, and each one timelocked for 4000 blocks longer than the previous one. That way, every miner choosing to mine the new algorithm would be a long-term investor in the value of ZEC and would have an economic in…

[Edit for accuracy by @daira: this comment was on 14 November 2018, which is just under 2 months ago, not 6 months. @Lisfin has contacted me to say that he meant that Harmony mining was proposed 6 months ago, which is roughly correct.]

Tries to spin it as if its OPT-IN time-locking, when infact he means if you dont like it, dont mine it.

Releasing mining rewards over 50 weeks

Earning the time-locked mining rewards is opt-in. If someone wants the time-locked mining rewards that the users/holders are offering them in return for mining services, then they can mine and they’ll receive those rewards. If don’t want that, then they can choose not to enter into that deal. That’s voluntary, consensual cooperation. Note that in the the next Network Upgrade (NU2 — Blossom, activating in the fall of this year), the new time-locked-rewards feature will only apply to the newly-int…

A team member says there might be security issues with the dualPoW, simulations show having a DualPoW might be more open to attacks.(only evidence we have right now, good or bad)…

Releasing mining rewards over 50 weeks

Zooko, I believe it would be absolutely irresponsible to make a decision on this only just after I’ve posted simulations that cast serious doubt on the security basis of dual PoW, with no time to consider the implications of those simulations.

He than says she is SLINGING accusations, and calls it unprofessional…who honestly looks unprofessional here? Thank you [Daira] for seeing a problem and raising awareness to it, even if its not something we want to hear.

Releasing mining rewards over 50 weeks

Daira, please stop slinging accusations. It’s unprofessional, it’s hurtful to me personally, and it’s probably unnecessarily alarming to community members who see that and think that we might be behaving irresponsibly. That’s not the case. There is going to be plenty of time and a well-honed process (https://z.cash/blog/the-zcash-network-upgrade-pipeline/) to make sure that the batch of changes in the next Network Upgrade are safe and that they protect users and increase the usability and securi…

Tells her “its not her job”…Shouldnt you be thankful for this evidence, considering you have no evidence showing its a good idea? This simulation “could” be the difference between getting attacked and not
Also time-locking officially proposed by Zooko 26 days ago, not leaving much time to research/examine/test before they have to vote on the issue. What is this congress? They use them tactics.

A note about controversy and culture

Daira, it wasn’t your job to evaluate potential future consensus protocol improvements. You were asked to execute on Sapling last year, which you did, very well. I talked to Nathan (the Company’s CTO) extensively, to the Electric Coin Company’s Technical Advisory Board, and to maybe hundreds of the people whose cooperation would be necessary to make this go through without a chainfork: other companies, investors/hodlers, traders, random users, scientists and engineers who specialize in economic…

Has simulations showing security implications with dualPoW from team members…still nothing to show dualPoW or time-locking has any benefits…“continues forward”…

Releasing mining rewards over 50 weeks

Folks, I had a great chat with Daira just now to go over her results regarding hashpower-security-analysis from the github ticket. It’s very interesting, and I still think it will take at least several weeks of security analysis to evaluate the security impacts of it. I’ll be deciding today whether the company will abandon Harmony Mining for NU2 or move ahead with it in the hopes that deeper analysis will show that it is secure. Daira is going back to working on ZIP0 so that we can have a more p…

He wants us to use Zcash, However he wants to require all Zcash wallets to charge a dev fee everytime you send a transaction(even the free wallets should require fees), ontop of your miners fee, passing costs onto the end users.

What does success look like for the Foundation's grant program?

Disagree that having to pay a 0.0001 ZEC dev fee to the wallet sucks. I think the Zcash Foundation should require all the wallets that they support, such as the zec-qt-wallet, to install a 0.0001 ZEC dev fee by default that gets paid to the wallet maintainer, in order to carry on and extend the precedent established by WinZEC. That aligns incentives between wallet-maintainer and user better and could eventually lead into a sustainable funding source for wallet-maintainers.

When asked who he talked to that “agrees with harmony mining” he says, I dont have a list. However these people are what he is 100% basing his decision on.

A note about controversy and culture

Not ex-post-facto, but I’m thinking maybe I should start keeping a notebook going forward for this purpose.

90% or more of the people on these fourms are against this idea, other 10% just want proof of what he is saying before deciding, any proof to show its good or bad. I havent seen anyone that is 100% onboard yet.
But who are we… The “minority” or “vocal few”… Seems like a pretty solid percentage that are against this(ASIC debate again?), who are you talking to, that a large majority are in favor of this?

The final NU2 Blossom Network Upgrade Goals

Folks: Here are the goals the Electric Coin Company has for the next few versions of our zcashd software leading up to the “Blossom” network upgrade in October of this year: Harmony Mining, including time-locking of mining rewards from mining alg-B, using the Equihash-150,5 variant that Beam made and is running in mainnet and has commissioned open source GPU implementations of. The purpose of this is to get mining power and to let coins be earned by multiple factions/types (ASIC miners and G…

This is not an attack, this is not me trying to troll or insult, I am pointing out inconsistencies in Zookos reasoning for why he is so SURE he is right on this proposal. I could be wrong , but it seems like he was the one that proposed this out of nowhere 6 months ago as some random idea to please ASICs and GPU miners. It was just on a whim of his. I honestly thought it was just a joke or a bad idea at that time, now [2] months later here we are.

I am just showing that Zooko has way more control over this project than everything leads you to believe. Yes there is a foundation, Yes they had votes, Did it even matter, many things point to no. I am very dissapointed with the way Zcash has treated its users, even more so its miners.

Im just trying to let new people to Zcash understand, pay attention to what Zooko is saying, his voice is the loudest here, even if he might be wrong. If you dont agree with him, you probly wont agree with the way Zcash will head in the future.

I tried to get some answers to why he thinks this way, and he refuses to even respond with a simple “we have lots to back this up, just wait” or a “This evidence is why I THINK this is a good idea”, even a OPINION of why he thinks this way would be nice right now.

Why should I continue to spend my time with a coin that just does things based on one guys proposal he thought up while trying to please everyone during the last big change that angered alot of people. The same guy who will not tell us why he thinks this is the correct choice for the future of Zcash.

Good Luck Zcash, you were the coin that got me into mining and crypto, so I thank you immensely for that, its sad to see you fall so far. Wish everyone the best of luck with the proposed ideas.

Zcash is definitely not for me anymore.

[OsrsNeedsF2P]

I think this thread is a gross overreaction to the reality that of course Zooko has lots of control over the project, no one’s denying that. But similar to PoW/PoS itself, it would be logical for the people with influence to act solely in the interest and sustainability of the project regardless, due to their own investments in the ecosystem too.

[Autotunafish]

The upgrade is still a ways off, take time to think (lots of testing coming up, drop by every once in a while)

[Shawn]

@Lisfin

With how much influence Zooko has on Zcash, and the statements he has made below, I dont think Zcash is for me anymore.

@Lisfin

I have stopped using Zcash, I sold out back when GPUs were getting kicked off and havent been back.

…

[ChileBob]

…I guess it took him a while to find his hat & coat.

[Lisfin]

This is the Zcash community for ya.

I raise issues and problems I can see with Zcash and im basically ridiculed by 4 out of 5 replys, including a moderator trying to troll me by saying I cant be invested into Zcash if I dont own any coins.

Thank you Autotunafish, you have always made logical arugments and it was always nice having that present in a discussion.

The rest of you in this thread, attack the arugments not the person. I have raised valid concerns, but your right, its easier to attack the person than try to defend any of the arugments I have raised.