Let's focus on ZSAs

I’m not the type to idolise celebrity businessfolk but there are certain ideas, mental models and nuggets of advice that live in my head rent-free.

One example is Steve Jobs’ perspective on setting priorities, which he articulated onstage at WWDC ’97: “Focusing is about saying no.”

That attitude clearly became embedded in Apple’s culture. Jony Ive cites it as one of the most important lessons he learnt from Jobs, adding “You can achieve so much when you truly focus.”

We will always have competing priorities in the Zcash ecosystem. Even if you set aside the question of how we should allocate funding between core protocol, app and wallet development, community outreach and education, regulatory engagement, research, and just focus on core protocol engineering, there are dozens of things we “should” be doing.

“We have to…”
“We need X.”
“It would be good to…”
“We should be prioritising Y.”
“Z is really important…”
“It would be nice to…”

The problem is that, if everything is a priority, that means nothing is a priority. Try to do everything, you’ll achieve nothing.

So, how do we decide what to prioritize?

At ZF, we’re guided by our strategy, which we frequently illustrate as a feedback loop.

Attracting more developers to contribute to and build on Zcash will lead to greater utility of ZEC and the Zcash network, thus leading to greater adoption and more users, who will, in turn, attract more developers.

However, a strategy is, by definition, high level. As such, you justify doing pretty much anything by explaining how it contributes to any of the four pillars of this strategy.

Instead, when t comes to setting priorities, we talk about “moving the needle” on one of our four strategic pillars - i.e. to what extent will an action or activity lead to a meaningful positive change in terms of persuading more people to start using Zcash, attracting more developers to build on or contribute to Zcash, improving Zcash’s utility, and (arguably the ultimate goal) increasing adoption of Zcash.

Looking at where we are today through that lens, I believe that the single most impactful thing we can do to move the needle on Zcash adoption is to deploy ZSAs.

In my opinion, anything that does not lie on the critical path for achieving that objective should be set aside until ZSAs have been deployed on mainnet. Every person that can contribute towards achieving that objective should be working on nothing else, and if we can recruit more resources that will accelerate our progress towards that objective, we should do so. The scope of NU7 should be slimmed down as much as is reasonably possible (by which I mean that including transaction format changes required for the future deployment of new features should be included, but the features themselves should be pushed to future network upgrades).

However, I fear that we are about to be massively distracted by a push to define and implement a mechanism to distribute funds from the Lockbox, which will suck resources away from the work needed to deprecate zcashd, and deploy ZSAs (and, to be clear, ZSAs cannot be deployed on mainnet until zcash is deprecated). Even the process of drafting and reviewing ZIPs for proposals is a distraction, let alone the work required to implement them.

Therefore, I propose that, as a community and an ecosystem, we agree to set aside the Lockbox issue until the work required to deploy ZSAs is complete.

The obvious question is “What about ECC?”

If we’re lucky, the market value of ECC’s STRK, BLD and ZEC holdings will recover to the level they were at in mid-December, thus extending ECC’s runway back out to four years. However, we need a plan B, and I propose that should be that ECC receives funding from ZCG.

Unlike ZIP 1014 (which stipulated that Bootstrap, ECC and ZF were ineligible to receive Major Grants) , ZIP 1015 places no restrictions on who can receive grant funding from ZCG.

Therefore, ECC can apply to ZCG for funding to ensure that it can continue to operate. At the current ZECUSD price of $34.85, the value of the current ZCG treasury plus the ZEC that it will accrue over the rest of the current (second) Dev Fund is a little over $4.4m.

I also propose that we extend the current Dev Fund by one year. Doing so is a simple change, and will ensure that we have sufficient time to agree and implement a long-term resolution to the question of how we fund Zcash development, and will provide the funds to replenish the ZCG treasury

To paraphrase Thomas Sowell, there are no solutions to the situation we face. There are only trade-offs.

I vote that we choose the trade-off that will deliver ZSAs as quickly as possible, and move the needle on Zcash adoption.

For the record, the views expressed herein are my personal opinions, not an “official” ZF position.

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+💯 for depreciating Zcashd asap.

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I think you are right… ZSA’s is the next big thing on Zcash. But I want to hear what ECC and Shielded Labs have to say about this idea.

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ZSAs will likely take more time than most people think. It will require the adoption of the entire stack (zebrad, Zallet, Zaino…). It’s more complicated that rolling out a singular zcashd node. Third parties will need time to adopt and test. If forced too quickly, it is possible that some may choose to drop support for Zcash in lieu of other priorities. We shouldn’t assume that Zcash is everyone else’s top priority. It’s all doable, but will take time. There is no one more excited or motivated than the ECC team to deprecate the zcashd codebase.

ECC is heavily focused on Zallet, a cli wallet to pair with zebrad. We are not slated to work on ZSA support until May at the earliest. To accelerate timelines, someone other than ECC, such as the ZF, could start woking on zcash_client_backend and zcash_client_sqlite.

We also need to line up third parties to do something with ZSAs. To that end, ECC (me), Shielded Labs (@aquietinvestor) and Qedit (@_jon) are working together in an attempt to recruit possible issuers. We’ve already had two external meetings with another scheduled for next week. It’s imperative that we don’t build in a vacuum, and instead build to requirements and onboard others that may want to support ZSAs.

And we need wallets to support ZSAs. In one conversation with a potential third party issuer, the requirement of threshold sigs and hardware support came up. There are no current plans to add them to Zallet, which we either need to reevaluate or ensure that we have Zashi ready to support. ECC will start working on Zashi support for ZSAs as soon as next quarter, budget permitting and based on what is available to use. The ZF can also assist by adding FROST to zcash_client_backend.

ZSAs will be powerful if we do this right. However, the future of Zcash does not rest solely on ZSAs. They aren’t a “Hail Mary.” Zcash is an amazing protocol for shielded storage and payments.

Subordinating the funding decision and lockbox distribution method to NU7 is unnecessary, puts funding (and thus delivery) in jeopardy and prolongs these debates. We are a multithreaded community. Things can and should occur in parallel. We have drafted two funding model ZIPs for the community’s consideration that I plan to publish next week. Extending the Dev Fund by one year, per Dodger’s suggestion, will also require a network upgrade.

Additionally, after consulting with the ECC engineers and Jason, I don’t believe the NSM to be an impedance on the NU7 timeline. We should also continue to conduct R&D on things like scalability, Crosslink, and post quantum cryptography.

Applying to ZCG for funding is one option ECC is considering. I’ll share more at ZconVI. But it’s up to ZCG to choose how to allocate the funds they’ve been entrusted with. They are an independent decision-making body. It’ll be their call. Keep in mind, their funding also stops in November.

If we strictly adhere to Dodger’s recommendation, the ZF should consider cancelling ZconVI and the Sofia dev days. These consume the time of the same people that are focused on NU7 and ZSA-related work. I don’t think they should be cancelled, but just illustrating a point. We can and should continue to do the right thing for the long term success of Zcash. That is our focus.

To summarize: ECC is focused, as are a number of other teams. A lot of collaborative work is being done. We still have much to do. We will win.

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I’d vote for that 1 year extension. The tradeoff will be that ZEC holders are, without delay, put in control of the dev fund, in protocol, not in law. I’ll remind the audience that no-one but ZEC holders are legitimate to control that fund.

That would also give 1 year for ZEC holders to prepare the properly decentralized governance of that fund starting the following year.

On a side note, I could see the price being positively affected by this change. That is particularly given the current dependency on legal structures, of a country that at this point little of the world still trusts. And legal structures are exactly that; trust.

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im really not strong in the tech part,

A) so how ZSA is cooler than what chains like Starknet, Mina, Aleo and others can offer?

B) and what about the idea that Zcash should focus on building as many bridges to other ZK chains ?

C) or A and B are the same?

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Starknet is a transparent layer-2 network for Ethereum, and it does not provide any data privacy. This means all transactions on Starknet are open and visible to everyone. It uses zk-rollups to increase speed and reduce costs, but it doesn’t hide transaction details.

This is a very good article so you don’t get lost in terminology when you see ZKP mentioned:

Mina is a blockchain focused on scalability, using zk-SNARKs to compress data and maintain a compact blockchain size. All information on Mina is open and visible to everyone, as the network doesn’t focus on transaction privacy. Mina doesn’t have a system for creating tokens, and all operations, including standard transactions, are transparent: https://minaexplorer.com/

What they do at Aleo I don’t really know. A lot is written about smart contracts. But I also checked the block browser and found that all transactions are transparent: Provable Explorer

So right now none of them offer anything that ZSA offers. Namely truly non-public transactions with wrapped tokens in truly non-public pools. In addition, all these projects have unlimited issuance.

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Me too, because I’m no longer interested in all this ,zcash talk" at all since I haven’t bought a single Zatoshi for months and won’t buy one until I can see an actual use case and demand that is reflected in the price.

We had the extension, now the extension of the extension

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100% agree with this one of course youre not saying to ice box it forever like I am… but at either way its the way to go for the next few years. Building a massively complex lockbox payments gadget is way too expensive & resourse distracting project to do anywhere in the near future. There are tons of better things to be prioritizing… i’ll just quote myself again since im tired of typing the same ideas a dozen times.

isnt it a tragic bit of comedy that the ECC orgs NEVER talked about ZEC price until finally they created a fiscal crisis from ignoring ZEC & holders for so many years… now all of a sudden ZEC price is front and center… ONLY when it became an emergency its like these people never HEARD that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. just look how stupid the ECC looks today in a 1 year fiscal crisis while sitting on 10 million dollars of illiquid shitcoin competitors that we seed funded… we literally funded our enemies who’ve now beaten us out of the market (talking Starkware here especially)… what a freaking theater this project is turning into. I’ve been buying ZEC since 2017 and watching from the sidelines mostly but christs sake i gotta give a last run for my money this cycle… its flat out pathetic that there are a dozen fundamentally worthless memecoins now traded at multiples greater than ZEC… launching a memecoin takes a couple weeks… building ZEC to what it is today took 8 years… WTF?

goes without saying other point here that there is a Moderation double standard around in this forum. Shawn sweeps in judiciously to eliminate any ZEC price speculation in threads basically everywhere… EXCEPT when its the CEOs of the two big orgs speculating about ZEC price in threads on a seeming weekly basis right now that they dug themselves into a financial crisis on the brink… for them its somehow allowable, I havent been seeing Joshs stuff getting cornered into the Price Speculation thread like basically anyone elses ideas would. zcash world has always felt two tiered theres the insiders getting paid by ZEC then theres the rest of us (ZEC users and holders)

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Of course, they were not interested in the Zec price, because they were and will continue to be paid from the big pot of the community. But as soon as things seem to change, they get nervous and suddenly the Zec price is important to them too. A small group of friends who have made a fat haul of Zcash. That is why this social safety net for this ppl must be ended.

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Zcashd depreciation has been cooking for years now, what is the current expected timeline for completion of it?

I am eager to see the back of it as consumes a lot of precious personnel resources.

yepper
asks are off now that true financial distress is a reality after all these years of willingly ignoring ZEC price & ZEC holders… BUT ohhhh NOW its a crisis and we’ve gotta go all hands on deck to invent the complex rube goldberg machine to continue to pay the same old group of project leaders & workers that have been here mostly since day one anyway.

if this is really just about keeping ECC paid then why did we ever put up the appearance of ending the devtax… if we just keep seem to doing the same things but giving them different names… first a Founders Reward, then a Block Subsidy, now a Lockbox

feels so sad to be yelling about this in the forum again because i swear these ideas are like a dark version of the movie ground hog day… its like every year or two the same criticisms of the devtax pop up and then get swept under the rug by some new fangled community polling initiative. Does the community really want to keep paying for these honey pot side projects

cant we spend only one or two straight years of nothing but zcash protocol work??? is it that much to really ask for a project that only does like 5-6k transactions a day its pretty insane to be spending the better half of a year buuilding and fixing wallets that arent even used by the majority of ZEC holders the majority of ZEC holders are using CEX custody

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many people wanted an official wallet,
it made Hardware Shielded ZEC possible
and other cool stuff

I see zero evidence that cutting the dev fund will magically fix price. There is much more to this story than meets the eye, and I think you know that :grimacing:

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oh yeah for sure devtaxation no matter if its explicit or not isnt the only thing thats been killing ZEC. and you can see im not really saying its magic medicine to help ZEC for me its about curbing extra curricular & redundant stuff that always manages to find its way onto everyones docket. free ZEC are much easier to dump than ZEC are when people spent hard earned money on them

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Well analyzed.
I see 0 evidence to continue financing the def fund as the price has not changed for 8 years.

If you are now thinking, “better the same price than a falling one”, It is not.

A falling price will ensure that a small group, including some Zcash devs, will not be able to secure their bags at the expense of the community. It will also contribute to decentralization if many in the community can buy zec cheaply. There is nothing to be said for keeping the price stable except for a small group that benefits at the expense of the community.

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That’s exactly what’s happening here. When the situation escalates, a sham discussion is simply held to then look for a solution that looks slightly different but always has the same result.

Although I don’t know if it’s “exactly” what is happening, and I doubt this discussion is truly meant as a “sham”, again I generally agree with you.

This thread is really a perfect example. Although I have mentioned that see the attempt of @joshs as a distraction because it’s just far from moving the needle enough, at least I give him credit for trying to solve a problem that is now critical to solve. @Dodger on the other hand? Let’s just talk about something else? What about that!

There’s an opportunity for an amicable, constructive & peaceful transition of control of the dev fund from ZF & ECC to ZEC holders. Hope they take it.

“Focusing is about saying no.”

What about let’s not focus on ZSAs until core aspects of Zcash are no longer in disarray.

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When I tried to describe it, I also had my doubts. :+1: