Monero. Everywhere

See, I’m not going to make that easy mistake and pretend that I know best.

That’s what ECC and ZF have failed at. They thought because they are the best at cryptography, they can’t be that bad at managing money and planning for the future of Zcash.

Exhibit A of the disconnect between their plans and the reality they have achieved.

I am however confident that resources will be better allocated by people with skin in the game, so that our chances of success are increased. This certainly includes being adopted by more vendors.

That’s quite a loaded question you got there.

Let’s start with clarifying your assumption about my goal: I want for it to be what Bitcoin was meant to be, how Satoshi envisioned it: private, scalable.

How? Like the above, I don’t have the pretension of having all the answers. I am looking forward to getting ZEC holders back into the governance equation so we can all figure out how to achieve our common objectives.

Thank you for clarifying your question.

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I think having ZEC holders ought to be able to vote, as such!

I agree with you there.

That’s a good idea.

I’m not trying to trick you into saying the something that makes you vulnerable, I am asking you to share ideas.. so I can learn.

I believe that I am best when I listen carefully to others and seek to understand them.

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It’s not what I want.

ZEC holders do not just deserve the right to vote on the dev fund: they deserve the right to control it. I have no interest in pursuing fragile governance mechanisms. Sybil resistance or nothing as far as I am concerned.

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I just love the argument about Monero being the best in privacy because criminals use it.

It’s well known criminals are very smart people, hence why they are criminals in the first place :laughing:.

You can also tell they never make mistakes because jails are empty all around the world, they are so hard to catch…

So my advice would be, if you are up to no good, please use Monero.

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I don’t feel like waiting for Monero to implement the equivalent of Orchard.

What’s going to be the point of using Zcash then?

We can’t just be bleeding edge, we must be competitive and attractive.

Beside, your argument is broken. It’s not just criminals using Monero. I, a sizeable ZEC stakeholder, use Monero to pay for all the privacy services I use that for some reason are not accepting Zcash (not a single one of them does). I do it because I believe in financial privacy and I will support whoever pushes things in the right direction.

So go for it and have fun at Monero. They are successful. You are not.

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Isn’t Monero a privacy enhancing technology?

If it is, then doesn’t more support for it imply more privacy?

Isn’t that a “good” thing? What do you value?

I’m in favor of more adoption of ZEC (to put it mildly), I don’t really see Monero use as a problem for that.

It seems like you do?

If you’re excited for ZEC-based voting.. then maybe try out the latest version of YWallet?

@hanh just announced a new release with new voting features!

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I have to say, I feel confused about how you Self Identify.

Should I think of you as a Zcasher? Cypherpunk? Monero User?

What’s your preference?

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Either it works and it is (a privacy enhancing technology) or it doesn’t work and it isn’t. Monero gives a false sense of privacy, so it is the opposite of that.

I don’t. Actually I am quite happy Monero exists, competition is quite important. It can highlight some of our weaknesses.

For us to get more adoption, we really need to catch up on a few things; and that has a cost. We do have a dev fund, which is an amazing feature, but with our current token price, it isn’t worth that much at this point.

There’s a pie composed of people in need for privacy tokens. It’s slowly growing, which is good. However if most of that pie is composed of Monero users, then it’s both bad for those users and bad for us. Bad for those users because they don’t get the privacy they believe they are getting. And bad for us because our token is not priced correctly and it affects our ability to fund what we need to succeed.

The work of @hanh is absolutely awesome, as I have said repeatedly. Voting is a stepping stone to something very important, critical actually: control. Why control? Because only with control, we get Sybil resistance. It’s a cold fact. There’s no shortcut.

There has to be someone in control and currently it is unelected legal entities that can really do whatever they want ultimately. That is absolutely not ok. That is not what resilience and anti-fragility looks like. This is not a path leading to success.

We are not going to get control overnight for the simple reason that we have to figure out the technicalities of how to implement this properly. But if enough ZEC stakeholders express a wish of having 100% of the dev fund managed by them, we’ll have made clear progress.

I just don’t think of myself that much. Feel free to put labels on me though, I’m always curious to observe how people perceive what I do and say.

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I strongly agree with you there.

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I am also free to not do so!

It helps me to work with you, if I have an understanding of who you are.

It’s not that I need identifying information that you don’t want to share, it’s that the more coherent the facet of you that’s supporting this forum is, the more accurately we can engage each other.

If I know “where you’re coming from” I am less likely to bump into you. It’s like we’re trying to create a unique artistic expression together.. like a dance. If we can find a rhythm we can explore interactions that otherwise wouldn’t be possible.

I believe that’s a reason why it’s quite important to think of yourself, so that you can more skillfully share with others.

That having been said, I do feel like our conversations are helping me (and probably other readers!) to appreciate your ideas and energies. I think this is good for us all.

I will think a bit more about your post, as I think you’ve made some interesting points that I would like to ponder.

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That’s precious feedback for me, thank you. It’s certainly challenging to feel at war with the same people I want to collaborate with. We’ve got to fix the system that puts us against each others.

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Exactly right!