Literally said security tradeoffs for games with money. You reply with something about smart contracts might help, screw the turnstile and the supply cap because counterfeiting vulnerabilities aren’t something to fear, we got ratios to agree upon.
Some complain about the relatively small shielded portion of zcash. I think if shielded swaps were a thing, fungibility increases.
I’m not even sure this is technically possible. I’m not technical or educated, so forgive me if this is a plainly laughable idea. This’ll be my last post on it.
I just want to flip shielded zcash and shielded ycash in single location, preferably a mobile app. I have perhaps some dreamed up ideas how the ecosystem system will look in a few years. And it looks like ZOMG is underutilized. Would be nice to crush the quote unquote privacy coin competitors with a new feature.
I apologize for the snide response but you must understand that we had one. Zcash Counterfeiting Vulnerability Successfully Remediated - Electric Coin Company
And if you search the forum you’ll find more too. There’s a video somewhere where Zooko kinda tella the story but it came around early in the spring 2018 when he and some other engineers were down at a conference in Latin America (sry can’t remember exact dates and also sorry if I misspell). Ariel Gabizon who discovered it while quickly reviewing the zcash spec paper before a presentation I believe called Zooko up to his room and relayed what he’d discovered. They called the rest of the engineers up and began working on how to go about remediation and disclosure. The bug was extremely subtle. It had evaded multiple audits for quite a while and was by not only a measure of brains but a little good luck too that it was found at all and why it was felt unlikey to have been exploited. But at that time there was no way of knowing in any sort of way besides if the attacker moved more coins than were supposed to exist or something like that. The community was enthralled in the ‘Asic-megathread’ (jeeeez! 
lol good times) so we were all way too preoccupied to realize that Zooko was going completely grey or why he’s acting just slightly more weird than normal. He did dress up like a bug for the Halloween livestream which happened just a day or two after the upgrade (that was the sapling livestream right? ) was issued with the fix I believe though the disclosure came a week or two later maybe so we were all like “haha, a bug, classic zooko”. There was some pushback about how it was handled and accusations, not unlike those about the powers of tau, yada yada but in the end all those were unfounded and the truth is that was handled as professionally as possible with the users safety always taking precedence. If it were believed that the liklihood of exploition were greater then things might have played out different. Even then we had to be sure the bug wasn’t exploited so the idea of the turnstile, which existed before the bug, had its point made for itself basically because you could still maintain privacy while migrating at the cost of we’ bit of time and is a completely reasonable tradeoff.
This project is set against a standard of excellence with regards to safety and functionality. I wouldn’t hang around if it wasn’t and won’t stand idle and watch it get lowered or changed to match something elses without showing good cause.
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That was fun 
@Autotunafish you kinda digressed there into FUD and a manifesto. 
This thread seems to be a user (@lawzec) wanting certain functionality… fully shielded cross-chain swap between Zcash and the closest relative Ycash. It also seems like there are others out there who want this. So, bringing it up to the community makes sense to me. There seems to be an understanding of conceptually what is desired, but then maybe it’d make sense for the technical experts to say whether or not it’s possible … and if possible, then what are the trade-offs and risks.
Inflation bugs might be part of that (and you’ve expressed your concern), but maybe net, the juice is worth the squeeze. It does seem like @lawzec suggestion is also to drive further shielded adoption, and given that >90% of Zcash is still transparent, it seems like discussions like this are valuable to fully tease out.
Not trying to get into a full blown discussion here. Was throwing out an idea for a third party developer. Can’t stop what other people do.
But, of course, I am aware of the infinite mint bug. I think that criticism is misapplied for two reasons. One. Ycash forked after the bug was fixed. And two. Contagion applies across all crypto networks. Tether contagion is far more real that a cross chain shielded swaps implementation.
I see the entire space and our economic systems shifting away from storing value to track and trace or free and fungible. I see zcash turning into a center for free and fungible. I would like that process to begin sooner rather than later, so we can get a head start on winning.
Actually I think its closer to 20% now but Im not an expert and perhaps there ls not much more I can add but again, replies, where reasoning is centered around a hypothetical inevitability, is the only kind of respones I get. One can only really extend a suspension of disbelief to a certain point.
Shielded Ycash is >20%.
Shielded Zcash is ~6%.
It’s less than 10% of float.
What can you do with your shielded zcash other than unshield, send, or spend?
I would like to trade behind the technology we are all here for. I think it’s an attractive idea absent technical flaw or incapability.
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The total supply tx output set is about 10655476. As of end 6-21 total sapling balance according to the ECCs metrics was 633643 which is 16.8ish%. In any case its more than ~6 and you should check your sources (if Ycash is over 20% then God bless em).
Maybe that % figure is wrong syr, but those are the numbers, damn phone calculator
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The source is ycash-cli and zcash-cli rpc calls for getblock height.
I think your calculation is off a bit. This isn’t really the thread for that. But ballpark calculations:
700k shielded ZEC/ 11 million would be 6.4%.
2.5 million shielded YEC/ 11 million is >20%.
I think the Ycash team posted a full time series comparison since block height 570,000 recently too. Those were actual figures from the rpc calls.
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The airdrop/doubling value concern was specific to Ycash but if that wasn’t the case, some arbitrary coin as a comparison, then the concern is about changing the fixed issuance rate. But if that was somehow ok then it would certainly be because its going through a turnstile, there must be accountibility. The bug manifesto (sry, it does harp on Zooko a bit but its not too far off what happened) concern is here for this reason, no accountability. It must exist in some form.
Just to add to this thread, this is possible via PayMo; the UX is just garbage due to needing to solve a VDF on failure (essentially single core PoW). If one side is allowed to be transparent (so tYEC for zZEC), then the recent work here would suffice as a proof of concept.
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@aiyadt what do you think about getting a grant to work on something like this? Is this technically feasible?
With transparent addresses, you can do practically anything bitcoin does, and very easily too because they share the same scripting language.
But I am pretty sure you can’t do it with shielded addresses because they have no scripting capability and no multisig.
However, things should change with the NU-5 upgrade.
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This is just one of the reasons I am so excited for FROST, which will bring multisig to shielded addresses.
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I happened to have studied and implemented FROST for zcash.
However, There are lingering theorical work items that need to be addressed before it becomes production ready. Therefore, I think NU 5 will come out before Frost.
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I do want to ask how a multisig is expected to be used for swaps. They can’t be used for atomic swaps, just swaps with arbitration which still have a large amount of counterparty risk (effectively an escrow). Also, isn’t FROST a n-of-n multisig, meaning if you engage in a multisig with the counterparty and arbitrator and either go offline, the entire scheme fails? I think FROST is great to be clear. I just disagree with using it for swaps.