Shielded chain swaps

Don’t know if this is feasible, but if shielded zcash and shielded ycash were hosted on a dex or relayer, and there was an ability to swap between the chains, I think that would garner attention from outside the zcash community.

I saw ZOMG was considering offering bounties, and I think this would be nice if not fantasy.

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Sketch (as the kids say). If I had X zec at the fork and then had X yec airdropped or just bought up however much and then transformed that back to zec or yec without anyone knowing seems like a potential problem. Not just because of the issuance fluctuation it would incur (why anyone thinks this is acceptable idk) but because the Zcash chain would have zero defense from a potential counterfeiting vulnerability from a totally seperate project or vice-versa.

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Conceptually, I think I see what you’re asking about here: shielded atomic swaps between Zcash and Ycash.

But you start to lose me a bit after that :wink:

What do you mean by “hosted on a DEX”?

Aren’t you basically just asking for a y2z/ z2y DEX market?

I could be missing something here :wink:

Ycash wasn’t an airdrop.
It was a chain & code fork.
So, you had to have keys to ZEC to claim any YEC.

@lawzec seems to be asking for a shielded ZEC/YEC market here.

A dex is one thing

And no sir, you are mistaken. If you had PVKs to Zcash at the fork then you could claim Ycash.

We don’t call it the ‘friendly fork’ for nothing.

Ycash was literally a fork.

After Zcash has ZSA support there might be airdrops, but YEC was a fork. The term “claim” is probably the wrong term in the YEC case because the prefork private keys controlled the spending capability regardless of whether or not the user goes through with “claiming” the coins. So, like ECC or ZF or Gemini might be sitting on old ZEC private keys that still control the spending capability of some YEC from <570,000 height.

Are you talking about a renZEC for Wry liquidity pool on Uniswap? Or something else?

If it’s “shielded” won’t it have to be native sapling (vs wrapped on another chain like ETH or BSC)?

Thanks for the interest in my post.

I just want to trade between shielded zec and shielded yec in the most fluid unrestricted private and secure way possible. However that is accomplished works for me.

I think if this were available it would offer deeper fungibility across both chains and offer tools for further privacy. Also might create some services and opportunity to expand influence across other networks, bringing more value into ecosystem.

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@Autotunafish was that post for reference? Or was there subtext there?

Searching ‘claim ycash’ here on the forum yields a number of relevant posts and that seemed the most comprehensive. ill find a how-to guide, hang on

Trading native shielded coins on a DEX would be awesome. For now you can trade on a CEX like Safe Trade, where you send shielded ZEC or YEC, exchange, then withdraw transparent YEC or ZEC and shield it yourself.

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@Autotunafish, remove that youtube link when you get a chance. It is actually fake and links to malware. A bad actor phished the Ycash Foundation.

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I did hunt that down pretty hastily but I know there were legitimate guides. And the premise of the concern is fairly universal, not just Ycash. The last statement in Nathans post sums it up

  • Also, some of the concepts here imply malicious behavior such as malicious software or questionable trading strategies. I want to stress that I am not aware of any malicious behavior on the part of Ycash or Zcash developers. However, sometimes these malicious behaviors are possible with no involvement or cooperation of the protocol developers or miners, so users should be aware and know how to protect themselves.

This idea and the other recent ones about atomic swapping seem to needlessly create new and larger attack surfaces for the sake of slightly more convenience or some economic ‘edge’ 🙍

Not sure I agree with the evaluation of the tradeoff here. I’d think the building blocks to a shielded atomic swap would be pretty monumental. Fully Shielded Timelock contract… fully shielded p2sh type transactions (not even sure if those are technically possible, but conceptually).

Z->T isn’t a shielded atomic swap? Pretty monumental in its own right I’d say. Smart contracts seem more dangerous than beneficial but thats just an opinion. What is P2sh? Also the total supply must be accounted for and so we use the turnstile when migrating. What benefit is there to shielded +/- inflation (timelocked knowledge, if you please) vs normal transparent +/- inflation? Also how do these smart timelocks account for unknown pool lifetimes?
I posted this during Zcon2 and obviously still wonder

“That was interesting though if I followed other projects like ethereum I suppose I’d have a better idea, some parts sounded good though I’m not immediately keen to trading security for games with money but whether thats taken very far outta context idk”

But you contest the evaluation and would really like to know why

Eventually, shielded-multisig will become a thing & that opens up all sorts of possibilities - especially as there’s a memo field on both zcash & ycash that could be used to control a trade/swap.

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I’m wondering about whether my interpretations are incorrect. This isn’t the only place I’ve asked and replies seem to center around the ‘inevitable’, as though the end simply justifies the means and I don’t buy it.

I was just thinking out loud…

Its probably 'cos we all played with Lego a lot as children & expect money to work the same way. :wink:

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