The future of Zcash in the year 2020


#12

Little did you know, when entering the past you have created a new timelime.

As you returned to your “present” time, you are no longer in the same timeline you left. You have created a fork in time.

Will things turn out the same in the future you have glimpsed? Or will your presence and knowledge of future events change the outcome. Maybe everything you do is already pre-destined. Only time will tell.

Thanks for the quick responses Shawn, keep up the great work.


#13

Thoughts…

The founders reward covers things that wont be an issue two years from now, ie: paying off those first investors. Any idea how much that is? (Guessing lots).

With those costs gone a ‘new reward’ may not be an issue, depends on how much is needed to continue development, support, operations etc.


#14

The investors got paid in full during the first year. See https://z.cash/blog/continued-funding-and-transparency:

The investors will receive their share of the Founders’ Reward over the first year of mining. The rest of the founders will receive their share of the Founders’ Reward over the first four years of mining. (This doesn’t change the size of the Founders’ Reward per block — it is still 2.5 ⓩ for the founders and 10 ⓩ for the Miner for each block in the first four years. It just means more of the Founders’ Reward goes to the investors than to the other founders during the first year.


#16

Interesting, i will add some points what mostly will happened by than in my opinion:

  • In Oct. 2019 harmony blossom has been introduced.
  • By than or shortly after that ETH is switching to POS.
  • All the free hashpower released from the ETH network is switching to the few POW coins by than. Note: Right now we have only about 13 pure POW coins in the top 50 by market cap and i bet in 2019/2020 they are even less.
  • All the free hashpower from ETH is raising difficulty to the sky on all the other POW coins. Only the very lowest electricity cost countries will survive in this POW battle. China, some former Soviet regions and that’s it about…
  • ZEC will be mined only from these regions by than. 99% is my prediction for 2020. Literally we have a chinese mining centralized coin mined on chinese mining pools by chinese miners. Note: Right now 3 chinese ZEC mining pools allready have over 50% and 4 chinese mining pools allready have over 75% of the network hashrate. With miners forced out constantly from higher electricity cost regions this mostly will go higher as well.
  • In 2020 when the halving occurs it’s the final nail that sets the end to the very last enthusiast hobby ZEC private.
  • By than Zcash has a full time translator english-chinese in the team. This is necessary because all dealings with miningpools and miners are by now in chinese, lol. Maybe Jihan Wu is a deputy or representative director/manager at Zcash Co by than (would at least safe the salery for the translator). (adding some fun factor).
  • Meanwhile the ZEC volume has been corrected, exchanges more regulated and inflated/fake volume being removed has brought us back to reality and ZEC price is on it’s real level. Mostly lower than now. Yes, i’am a believer that all the fake/inflated ZEC volume we still see had an artificial impact on ZEC price, making the halving even worse.
  • In 2020 we realized that we missed some major trends and directions. We are one of the few coins still betting on POW as we have not researched any other alternative being confident that harmony blossom will fix everything but actually didn’t fix anything but made things even worse.
  • Seening how lagging future decisions are done we lost alot of ground, other privacy coins and direct competitors that adapt faster to changes in the environment outperform us and took some or a lot of our market shares.

Now we come to the future funding: After there are anyway no private miners left that are outside the low electricity cost regions and mostly centralized in China and some former Soviet republics i suggest you guys directly discuss the issue with them. Most of us here are either allready forced out of mining (me included) or are getting forced out within 2019. I seriously, no fun by the way, suggest you decide that funding matter from the mining rewards directly with the enterprises involved than. Shouldn’t be too hard to come too an agreement with the 4 mining pools and several big mining farms that still will mine ZEC by than. As each side (Zcash/Foundation and the mining pools/mining farms) are depentent to each other i’am pretty sure they agree that funding will continue.

This said, don’t worry about funding, it will continue…


#17

This is a great thread @Shawn, thanks for sharing your perspective.

Some quick thoughts from the Zcash Foundation side:

  • Re: trademark, that’s a top priority from the Foundation—we’re working through a sharing agreement such that the Company doesn’t have unilateral control over the trademark. I am not a lawyer (but we’re working with some) and we still have much to do, but I wanted to let everyone know that we’re working on it.

  • I agree that the clock is ticking, and we need to have a good assessment of the state of Zcash and future development resources today. I’ve given some info in a prior thread but expect a more thorough report from the Foundation soon.

  • Ultimately I agree that everyone in the Zcash community needs to start discussing these issues, and I think the Foundation has a role to play in gauging community sentiment—hopefully in a more expanded (yet somehow still streamlined) Community Advisory Panel along with other venues for discussion.


#18

One my hopes in creating this thread is to spur discussion about what happens when the Founders Reward runs out. Is the Zcash Foundation expected to then take over? I don’t know Zcash Company financial details so I have no idea how long they can/would/want to last once thier primary (?) funding source abruptly ends.

Zcash Company has been clear about the long term goals of decentralization:

However in the long run it would not be appropriate for a single for-profit company to have this much power over the evolution of the Zcash technology. Ultimately, there will need to be an independent, inclusive, non-profit body to steward the technology in the interests of all users.

This was discussed in other threads with various reactions, and I will quote some reactions here to a suggestion that some sort of “new fund” be established to help Zcash Company or even the the Zcash Foundation or some other entity keep the lights on and keep working on improving the Zcash protocol beyond 2020.

(Please don’t feel singled out if I quote you here, I’m just trying to keep the conversation moving forward)

As you can see there is a wide range of opinions.

Which brings me to the second part of the puzzle, how do we measure Community sentiment for these kinds of changes

There is also discussion on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Vires_Num3ris/status/1081340542389243904?s=09

What would be the most effective way for the ‘community’ to vote on these proposals? Most conventional voting systems are too easily gameable to be the only deciding factor imo.

Perhaps a weighted skew of several different voting mechanisms and over staggered timeframes. @acityinohio can you point me towards your thoughts thus far?

https://twitter.com/acityinohio/status/1081372632317087751?s=09

Sure! The most concrete articulation right now is probably the feedback from the original advisory panel process (https://t.co/c45W81S21b ). The main addition the Foundation is keen on adding is a parallel staked voting approach, but still brainstorming other possibilities.

So thats where we are at.


#19

If the mining reward distribution will be altered anyway for a dual GPU/ASIC, could a percentage be carved out for the Zcash Foundation, which in turn could fund developers and infrastructure? Or would that be criticized too heavily?


#20

And change the name as well while you are at it. It would no longer be the same coin …


#21

My crystal ball parts are still on backorder, but my gut says the following is likely to take place.

First, a new crypto bull market will increase interest in Zcash at least an order of magnitude higher. Having more people involved in the discussion, as a function, will make changes more difficult. That said, it’s important that we continue to listen to how old and new users want to use Zcash and see what other projects are doing successfully. Being open, aware and introspective as a community is one of the best traits of Zcash.

Second, the number of well funded competitors is going to increase. Everyone is going to want to be the new hot crypto. If you thought the last run was extreme, just wait. Zcash may have a hard time keeping up with the massive amount of money hyping these other pump machines. We have to figure out a way to not get lost in a sea of the next cryptobubble.

Moving the, “What is Zcash” and trademarks over to the Foundation is an important step. Increasing the size of the community governance panel is also important, but we need some sort of filter to make sure that those new members aren’t actually there to harm Zcash (see: Trojan Horse). Weighted voting tiers? I’m not sure what the best way to do this would be.

Last, in terms of funding, I think we should have a community governance panel vote to extend paying developers for their work past 2020. Coins that don’t properly pay developers are at risk of a hostile takeover. By that I mean a company swoops in, paying devs while forcing them to work on for-profit company projects while stagnating the protocol.

Either way, great things are in store. Many challenges and opportunities!
:zebra::zebra::zebra::zebra::zebra:


#22

@_eric a code split of the Founders Reward to separate the Zcash Foundation funds from the Zcash Company funds is in the works for Blossom:

But that only applies to the existing ZEC allocation which runs out in 2020


#23

I had to create rules because I was having trouble dealing with butterfly effect among other things, imagination running pretty wild with this one so I had to tighten the leash I suppose ( I know some of you can time travel not think about it but I can’t! Lol!)
It constitutes something like shroedingers-time traveling-other-dimensional-clone
So you Y1 are cloned Y2 (unbeknownst to either) into a parallel (mirrored) dimension
Y2 goes to Y1s dimensional future, its both you so you Y2 could find out how it would be without the effects of Y1s prior knowledge (which would certainly constitute a different (3rd) future than having been disappeared for 11 years), this should work though


#24

This is the big problem I see with them making the descisions. They are FOR PROFIT. They do not have the communitys best interests in mind**, Its a FOR PROFIT company, and like any company, profits are the the number one goal.

This is why we keep seeing these ridiculous proposals for (extended rewards, locked mining rewards)…profits must be down, and now they are trying to artificially inflate them. Funny how this is all being talked about when Zec is at its lowest point in almost 2 years.

The bear market is flushing out the scam coins. With some of the proposals, Zcash is kinda starting to look like another cash grab coin…


#25

You do realize the last “vote” for ASICs, had ZERO effect.

Why should we belive this “community vote” will have any effect on the outcome?


#26

This thread is about planning Zcash Development beyond next two years, if you want to discuss ASICs there is a separate thread for that.

As Josh @acityinohio (head of the Zcash Foundation) mentioned above, they are working on agreements with Zcash Company to share influence over the Zcash protocol, TM, etc… two years gives us time to get prepared for the end of funding and plan how to move forward from there. A vote by the community about how The Zcash Foundation moves forward is part of this process.


#27

And how was I off topic? Just because I say the word ASIC does not mean I am off topic. I was raiseing the point that the voting for ASIC didnt count. Why should we trust the voting for the “FUTURE OF ZCASH” will count?

This is on-topic…

He was saying we need a panel like we had last time, I was rasing awareness that the last panel had no effect on the outcome…how is this off topic?


#28

I haven’t mentioned off topic yet

To move forward we have to assume that the Zcash Foundation will gain more influence on the direction of Zcash based on the statements made Zcash Foundation and Zcash Company.

So assuming that a vote will matter, what then?

How do we vote securely so everyone (like yourself) feels included with broad Community consensus? How to we keep improving Zcash beyond 2020 if like you suggested, the founders reward is not replaced or extended?


#29

Im not the one getting the current or extended mining reward. Why should I do the job for them and not get paid? Clearly, talks of extending the rewards means THEY want to get paid. Why should I spend my time doing work for them and NOT get paid?

Shouldnt everthing be done by then? Why did Zcash ask for 10% of the rewards and say we will give you this,this and this. And now they dont have enough money? That means…

A. They spent beyond their financial capacities.
B. Didnt ask for enough money, because they didnt understand what it would take.

Either way, Is the answer THROW MORE MONEY AT IT?

What if we have B. again, and 4 more years down the line they need more funding becase “we are not done”.

I am against extending the funding for Zcash. If people want to donate to them, thats up to them, dont force it from the miners hands.

EDIT: Maybe selling almost 17% of reward coins for $15 usd to Roger and his friends wasnt such a great idea nowdays, how much was that worth at the all time high.

The overall amount raised including the previous round is $3 million, and the investors collectively now own 16.4% of the company.

Since the Founders’ Reward is 2.1 million coins (10% of the total long-run monetary base of 21 million coins), and since the Founders’ Reward will be split among the owners of the Zcash Company in proportion to their ownership, this means the new round of investors paid $2M for an eventual distribution of 131,250 Zcash coins. Therefore, they effectively paid $15.24 per coin.

Did Zcash NEED that money to get started? Could they have started alot slower, and still had ownwership of 17% more rewards? We wont know for sure, but here we are with them asking for more money. Clearly something didnt work out that great.


#30

Just for clarification, Zcash Company has not asked for more money, nor has Zcash Foundation. This thread just is speculation on the future.


#31

Companies that design and manufacturer toothbrushes are also for-profit. That doesn’t mean they don’t care about improving people’s lives through proper dental care.

The Zcash company hasn’t operated the way you’re describing. There has been a large amount of community outreach and active participation toward moving power from the company to the foundation. Having future profits and a successful protocol over the long-term requires building what users want.

They do not have the communitys best interests in mind

The community has larger interests than your own best interest, specifically, GPU-only mining. This is why a governance panel was created and anyone interested in helping steer Zcash’s future could join. Many vocal GPU-only miners didn’t choose to join at all. In my opinion, this shows that those users might care less about Zcash and more about their own profits than they claim.

It would be nice if we could keep this thread to ideas and the future rather than rehashing anti-ASIC complaints.


split this topic #32

Some discussions about the first round of Zcash Foundations Governance Panel and Voting were merged into a new thread: Zcash Foundations Voting and Governance Panel