An Idea - Invest in People, not Packetized Projects

Why isn’t the answer “It went to commits x,y,z (easy to track), releases a,b,c, and their support and maintenance this month” good enough? Do I have to know if the dev used her cpu credits and dedicated servers at an optimal rate? Do I care if they got delivery or carried out? Do I care what their “billed developer rate” (which is essentially (personal value / humbleness), pretty arbitrary) was in sync with their geographical region?

I’d say no. I wanted someone to do work. The work is done, she got paid X. Next month, if ZOMG wants to continue based on RESULTS, great! Feel free to tweak X as needed. If ZOMG decides it’s best that X is zero, that’s fine too.

That might be scary for devs on continuity of funding, but I don’t think it’s that bad. Dev/ZOMG trust will grow quickly and be a super valuable commodity to both! So there’s every reason to continue funding devs who’ve earned trust, and maybe the mutual needs (zomg needs trusted devs, devs need zomg) makes devs feel more secure?


Aren’t you ZF? Can you help on the grant question? There HAS to be at least one other decent grant recipient I’m forgetting. Surely SOMETHING of value has been built by ZF funds besides ZecWallet.

Addendum - Totally on the same page that ZOMG is evolving and learning what works and what doesn’t. I think asap we should find out if a people-focused funding model is a good evolutionary strategy!

Addendum 2 - Isn’t this a way to onboard devs? I know hloo has some commits in ZecWallet, I think community member rex(somenumber) has commits there as well, does tons of testing and work in github issues - Why not have an end-of-month roundup, talk about the actual results these people contributed to the ecosystem, and compensate appropriately? How valuable is rex dilligently testing and reporting the tiniest warning on every zcashd build? I suspect it’s pretty valuable. How valuable is Tm3k? He’s EVERYONE’s first window into ZEC. Break him off something from the ZOMG cash, he’ll meme it, it’ll be classic, and we’ll all laugh together over memes and continue to build a community we love, rather than bicker in our centralized discourse server confusopoly


See how stripe works. They create the SDKs which make it easy for developers to create their own apps using stripe backend technology. The sdks are designed around use cases.

So they don’t directly fund any external development. They just make it easier for devs to create 3rd party apps. Is this what zcash does or do they actually fund the external apps?

Really interesting ideas in this thread. Trying to think of a way to quantify results, most specifically in user growth.

Just spitballing: Maybe to make this measurable as a key metric, we could look to (dollars spent / active users) ratio and model “rewards” based on that.

For instance, Zbay received $64k in funding. It has approximately zero DAUs. We’ll include Holmes, and round up to one. That’s a rate of $64k/user currently.

By comparison, ZECpages averages 50 DAUs, with all time highs in the 300s. Going from the average, ZECpages seems to be worthy of a grant of about ($64k * 50 users) = $3.2M, valued relative to Zbay’s outcomes.

I probably wouldn’t accept it, because I enjoy the autonomy and fun of the pet project, but I think the math is right and a good start in finding user-focused key outcomes!


There are other models to fund the effort — make users pay (subscription, upfront, service fee via transaction fee, pay to unlock premium features etc). It gives you more freedom.

privacy is not free but it can be made accessible!


In 0x case, this is how he has been working for about a year and providing community updates:

I personally would not be opposed to this kind of funding model if a developer wanted a opportunity to work on Zcashd, Zebra, or even Lightwalletd development.


I think it’s more about deciding how to allocate zomg funds to zcash community such that community goals are met.

But i’m afraid ZF goals and Zcash Community goals are different.

Zcash Foundation: “public privacy infrastructure, even if its Monero”
Zcash Community: “Zcash is under-rated, under-utilitized and can bring world peace - we must show the world!”

How are Zebra’s DAU numbers? (edit - I guess this isn’t released? I could have sworn I downloaded a beta or something over a year ago. Am I misremembering? )

Edit: Also, it seems like (at first glance) what’s going on with 0x is not at all what’s being suggested - he’s getting milestones, getting a contract with an agreement to complete them, then being paid. He’s building a product to a spec. You’re not funding a person, you’re funding a product contract based on a spec. It looks like a person is getting contract work in the normal way. Am I missing something about the arrangement? Isn’t that a packetized project?

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Yeah, I was replying to @BrunchTime.

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I feel zcash is lost in the space and needs to realize they are late… Monero already leading to higher rank

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Zebra is not born yet. Baby Z will come out soon.

You need enthusiastic folks to run more full nodes. That set size goes up with Zcash ranking.

@amiller Isn’t 2021 goal to publicly launch Zebrad?


perhaps more important than daily active users (DAU) is “z2z/DAU” - how many z2z transactions did those DAU inspire?

Allocating @ZOMG ZEC to project based on z2z/DAU could be fun

DAU could also be subject to sybil-attack if someone decided to fake the numbers to try to obtain more ZEC.

[Moved off topic to other thread]

I believe he set his own milestones and adjusted them throughout the year as he worked, without needing permission to do so. This most recent Grant from ZF was more specific, two weeks of work, but previously he had a lot of discretion to find what he wanted to work on.

Ok. So you think POSSIBLY this was done in the past in the case of 0x, but that it’s definitely not the case now.

This seems like a pretty vague avenue to be exploring and I’m not sure if it’s super valuable to the thread. Do you have answers to any of the other questions ITT?

For more specific info I would suggest asking him directly or reading through his thread. I was not involved in his grant/work.

There’s related discussion in the ZOMG Update 1-20-2021 and meeting minutes thread.

I sometime feel the community is way smarter than everyone :joy:

Slight deviation but I like to point out that MGRC (Major Grant Review Committee) was created to fund larger teams dedicated to improving Zcash. IIUC, smaller grants are to be made for ZF but the larger grants would be applied at MGRC. I believe ZF grant is still open for business.

There are some interesting & valid points made here & in other threads about longer term support for piece of software written by the developer and making sure it is used by actual users. You can break it down into three components: base fee + long term support + rewards based on user growth milestones


Is anyone working to answer the questions in this thread? The linked 0xarbitrage thread seems loosely related, but doesn’t really answer anything.