You would have had to ask permission to use the Golden Z since as far back as 2017 or around when it was conceived, before that it was the white and black Z and the shield, theres no ‘suddenly’ about it
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Let’s try to simulate a situation in which Zcash can suffer from the absence of a trademark. Let’s say this is a situation today or imagine a situation in conditions where ZEC is also known as… what, for example? It seems to me that Zcash has already formed as a brand, perhaps not as strong as Bitcoin or Ethereum, but I think at least 70% of the crypto community will be able to name its “Z” logo. What threats arise from the lack of trademark protection? I understand everything when it comes to the letter “M” at McDonald’s. But who would think of using the same Zcash logo for something else? For what purpose? At what point in time would anyone say “you’re using the Zcash logo - do you think I don’t recognize it?”? 
Perhaps that day has not yet come.
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Somebody, and the question is really more how and when. This occurs today even with the TM but it allows for a legal recourse instead of just sitting on hands while watching it happen hoping people hear you before they get scammed. Zcash and the Golden Z indicate that the genuine article is ‘here’: real Zcash services, accepted, buy, sell, what have you, be that a vendor site or a store. It’s enforcement is proportional to it’s method of enforcement being upheld which is by the law. It does not allow for exceptions and weakening that weakens the brand and the mark. It’s also important to understand that the TM is also a legal-name because it indicates the specific goods and services i.e. ‘Zcash’ and not just a business or entity. There’s a lot that went into the TM agreement. I wasn’t highly involved (a lil bit) but I remember them being pretty brutal amongst some of those who were and it’s all for the protection of the project.
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I think we are lucky that this happened sooner than later and it’s documented for the world to see. Criticism is a healthy function of a thriving community. Without this passion we are seeing from people like you and @fireice_uk, there would be nothing worth fighting for. We are fighting for our freedom of privacy in our money, and it’s going to be filled with bumps along the ride.
Long term, I think ZFND should consider taking off the training wheels, so to speak, as there will come a time (if it’s not stifled with minutiae like these constantly) when the community is bigger than what can be controlled by some legal framework(s).
Yes we want to dogemoon boys and girls at some point spending ZEC and writing love letters, or shitposting on zecpages.com, but just know that they probably aren’t going to be hanging out on the Zcash forums to figure out what’s “right” and “wrong” part of that legal framework before they set up a retro Zcash merch store on their Etsy store.
Or ECC can just open a shop and set the tone and example.
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Ive spent quite a while going over the trademark agreement over the past couple of months.
We have to adhere to the usage of the trademark as outlined in the agreement then work with the foundation to make sure we got the usage, stylisation, trade dress and language right. its going to take time, they have been amazing in cooperation.
The problem with trademarks is you must protect them. I do not see it too hard for a skilled lawyer to argue by approving that an anonymous entity may use the trademark and tradedress then they are not protecting it.
I think an angle everyone might be missing here is the Trademark agreement is our, the communitie’s, check on BP and the ZFND to ensure we only have one zcash chain.
If there was no legal protection on the trademark both the ecc and zfnd would have “zcash” then could both release their own “official” zcashd and do whatever they wanted to “their networks”
I dont see how things like 1014 could work if there was 2 zcash networks.
Hopefully from what we (zephyr) are currently going over with the zfnd, this will be easier and clearer for the grant recipients in the future.
To the wider issue @gottabeJay raised. imho it is solvable, its just how much do you spend on solving it?
I really hope @Dodger can maybe run something like a “zcash submissions” where if you want to make something like a sticker but want to stay anon, you submit the vector files, they approve/disapprove then licence out 10k prints or do the prints, idk. this needs more thinking. i know this model does work tho. Microsoft and Sony used to use something similar. It worked exceptionally well for them. dm me if you want to talk about it in more depth.
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What would be the goal of any action the community take/fund? Is it purely the broaden the community’s ability to commercially use the trademark?
If that’s the case are we okay if hardware wallets start popping up on eBay plastered with Zcash stickers posing an an official Zcash hardware wallet?
What if these Zcash hardware wallets didn’t even support shielded addresses? Are we okay with transparent only Zcash hardware wallets using Zcash branding to trick users into buying an inferior product?
I’m not saying we don’t try to better the current situation… We definitely should. It’s just not clear to me what the end goal is.
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This is the crux of the matter. On one side, ZF needs to protect its non-profit status by executing the responsibility of Trademark usage. On the other hand, Zcash community members wanting to stay anonymous want to use the trademark on a for-profit basis.
I’ve come across small businesses selling pins, stickers, and clothing with a modified version of the Zcash logo - which did not confuse the public as if the merch is coming from the “official” Zcash Foundation.
Bitcoin does not have a foundation, there was a period to set one up in 2012/2013 and there were discussions around trademarking then new orange Bitcoin logo, but the venture failed to meet its mission.
Every cryptocurrency with a foundation/treasury body has assumed control over the trademark of the said cryptocurrency to protect the end-user. This is important because the crypto ecosystem is not short of scammers or actors who would take the first opportunity at hijacking the userbase we are going after.
See how Algorand makes available its trademark in a very transparent way, while restricting for-profit ventures: https://www.algorand.com/about/media-kit
Maybe we need a clear, inviting and well-defined page for the Zcash community to use the Zcash logo & an easy, fast-tracked way to apply for usage for a profitable venture? @Dodger
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An interesting article getting into Trademark/Copyright issues with NFTs and derivatives.
If that’s the case are we okay if hardware wallets start popping up on eBay plastered with Zcash stickers posing an an official Zcash hardware wallet?
Who says we can’t put a licence condition that it needs to be a working wallet that has no hidden functions or features that defraud users? I expect this condition will be as effective as trademark protection in general for this case, but it will give grounds to issue a cease and desist to someone, somewhere.
What if these Zcash hardware wallets didn’t even support shielded addresses? Are we okay with transparent only Zcash hardware wallets using Zcash branding to trick users into buying an inferior product?
There is no requirement to support z-addreses for the current licence. If that’s something you would like to advocate on that’s more than welcome. We want precisely this kind of discussion.
To develop your idea further, how about having an new, exclusive “Zcash fully supported” TM that indicates z-addr support?
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Specific software requirements seems out of scope for a TM. How would ZF or ECC be able to indefinitely enforce/audit such a certification if they are maintained by third party apps? And what liabilities would they have to assume with such a “genuine Zcash” certification if it was abused?
I like the wording that Algorand uses:
The Algorand logo and standalone “A” are trademarks of Algorand, Inc., but available for use by our community and users of the open source network.
- The Algorand and “A” logo are to be used for community purposes only, including merchandise, but no other for profit business. This includes community engagement such as creative visuals, meetups, merchandise, etc.
- The Algorand and “A” logo can be used to note that your company service, or application is leveraging the open source public Algorand blockchain to power its offering.
- No person or entity should be misrepresenting the use of the logo in any official Algorand capacity or misleading others to think they are the organization behind the official Algorand blockchain.
- Use of the brand does not mean that you own it - Algorand, Inc. maintains the rights to the trademark in all instances.
- Use of the logos or name can not be used with other phrases or words (ie, AlgorandInvesting, Algorandstore, etc.). Algorand can not be connected to any other product or service, unless in the context of an application that is leveraging the open source blockchain network.
That seems to cover most (if not all) use cases that I have seen community members asking for. It allows use by the community to make products (stickers, shirts, etc…) to show affiliation with the Zcash community while not giving permission for use of the TM on software or services to claim that they are officially associated with Zcash.
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I don’t think we are qualified to answer those kinds of questions. This is tricky stuff that needs to be answered by a professional. It 100% can be done though - Microsoft has had compatibility programs together with associated stickers for years.
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Sure, but my point was software certifications seem to be going off on a different direction than the OP of this thread, which was to open the TM to less restrictive commercial use. TM Lawyers will be happy to bill for N number of hypothetical legal situations you throw at them (at N x $$$$ per hour) and sink large costs doing so.
I would recommend being very specific about what you are looking to accomplish if you want a solid legal opinion to give to ECC/ZF for them to be comfortable amending the TM.
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Yes, at the end of the day it is a cool idea but a tangential one. Sometimes bathwater has babies 
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This is a great example, thanks for sharing it.
I am happy to review our community-facing trademark enforcement actions with our trademark attorney to ensure that we’re not being over-zealous in our enforcement. That is definitely not our intent. Trademark law is extremely complex and we regularly seek guidance before taking action. I’ll add this to my list of things to discuss with them and we’ll make adjustments as they advise.
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I saw something familiar on the purple icon on the left. Is this a trademark violation?
sourse: https://twitter.com/Zelle
Spoiler alert: I know that it is not because the logo itself already states that it is a registered trademark.
So what exactly are we trying to protect here?
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Is this a trademark violation
The ᙇ symbol itself is a symbol used in Canadian Aboriginal language.
What the Zcash Trademark covers is the word “Zcash” and the 
symbol.
I’m not going to comment on any specific potential violations but currently registered trademarks are not exempt from potential trademark infringement. Companies can change their focus of work, add features, and take other actions that would make what was a non-infringing mark at the time of registration into an infringing mark because of those changes. ZF utilizes services that notify us when potentially infringing marks are registered (new and renewals) around the world so we can take action if the proposed usage triggers a potential violation. These considerations are separate from someone directly using the Zcash marks in restricted ways.
This is quoted from the USPTO (worth a quick read About Trademark Infringement | USPTO):
“Generally, the court will consider evidence addressing various factors to determine whether there is a likelihood of confusion among consumers. The key factors considered in most cases are the degree of similarity between the marks at issue and whether the parties’ goods and/or services are sufficiently related that consumers are likely to assume (mistakenly) that they come from a common source. Other factors that courts typically consider include how and where the parties’ goods or services are advertised, marketed, and sold; the purchasing conditions; the range of prospective purchasers of the goods or services; whether there is any evidence of actual confusion caused by the allegedly infringing mark; the defendant’s intent in adopting its mark; and the strength of the plaintiff’s mark.”
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Does it make sense if someone, for example, changes the color inside the logo to more yellow or do it green to create a fork of Zcash in the form of a meme coin with infinite supply. How will trademark protection work in this case?
I just think that it will be much more effective to popularize the trademark and make it more recognizable in various circles, without limiting the purposes of use only to non-commercial interests. This will allow people to understand where exactly the fake is without our intervention.
As a result, restriction of use is protection by an extensive way of prohibitions, but an intensive way of permissions and incentives for the use of a trademark, including for commercial purposes, will always be more effective.
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At a basic level the same concepts apply as above: (1) the strength of the mark; (2) the proximity of the goods; (3) the similarity of the marks; (4) evidence of actual confusion; (5) the similarity of marketing channels used; (6) the degree of caution exercised by the typical purchaser; (7) the defendant’s (infringing party’s) intent. Context and intent contribute to the infringing/non-infringing decision as well.
Worth noting that there are plenty of caveats and considerations that must be applied to each individual infringement review. It’s rarely a straightforward process so I’m responding with generalizations here.
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Good find, here is a thread about the apparent coincidence of Zelle registering their trademark in the same month as Zcash genesis.
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