High price for a service doesn’t make it a scam. Consult your dictionary or don’t post. If you don’t do your own research in crypto you are doomed to lost your money in one way or another. These ‘scam’ accusations do nothing to actually help people inform themselves and just helps actual scams make money.
Never underestimate the power of FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) paired with FOTT (Fear Of Technical Things).
Cloudmining scams take advantage of people when either one of these acronyms is high.
ZCash had the perfect storm of a high level of both within a lot of people. I knew it and warned people they were going to regret their “investment” but logic and math doesn’t impress people as much as flashy ads and “SOLD OUT!” hype, asking for your Bitcoin.
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I strongly disagree with your opinion. Cloud mining contracts are a scam, simply because there’s no possibility of recouping your initial investment. At best, it’s dishonest to sell a “service” that has no value.
Plenty of people didn’t do their homework and that’s what gave the service it’s value.
Both sides are at fault but I tend to think it is very scammy what Genesis does.
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You are in fact factually wrong. If the seller supplies the hash rate promised thata the only thing that matters. Any other view is simply stupid and uninformed. The fact that the market for the coin of difficulty creates a situation where you don’t reach return on your investment that is entirely up to the buyer to investigate prior to purchase.
You can’t fault the selling company for marker conditions. If so every single fund product would be a “scam” when the market drops.
The fact that people have no idea what they are buying end expect cloud mining to be some kind of magic money maker is simply idiotic.
Not reaching ROI on a product has nothing to do with it being a scam. I’m pretty sure that bot a single cloud mining provider promises a certain return on their product. You buy hash rate, you get hash rate.
If difficulty would have been 1/5th of current and price $1000 per Zec not a single customer would have complained about their contact.
Entirely factors outside the control of the cloud mining provider.
Dumb customers does not a scam make.
And I can guarantee that is Zcash skyrockets in 9 months and all the cloud contracts turn out to be profit machines very customer that is whining about a refund now will be back arguing that they were scammed into accepting a refund.
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whats most troublesome here is that the owner of the contract wants to sell it because “. I have to take care of my children.” honestly maybe at this point calling child services is moral thing to do…
if someone is risking savings that are needed to take care of their children on mining - if it be cloud or rigs - something is wrong.
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There’s also no disclaimer informing the customer that they may not recoup all or a portion of their original investment. This is all that it would take to properly inform anyone of the risks involved.
So I guess what you’re saying is that it’s okay that these service providers didn’t disclose vital information to their customers, simply because their customers are suckers?
Legally speaking, a statement does not need to be affirmative to be considered fraudulent. When one party is in a position of trust and has superior knowledge in a transaction, and knows, or ought to know, that the other party is relying on their knowledge and expertise, then the trusted party has an obligation to disclose all relevant information to the other party. In this case specifically, the buyers of the cloud mining contracts were reliant on the technical expertise of the cloud mining providers.
Any cloud mining provider either knew, or ought to have known, that the “service” they were selling had a chance of not breaking even, and they should have clearly disclosed this to all of their customers. But nobody on this forum is rallying for criminal charges or class action lawsuits. Instead, we’re simply warning any potential customers that they won’t make a return.
Why exactly do you have a problem with people on this forum informing others of potential risks?
They don’t sell a final instrument, they sell hash rate. Why would they need to post a disclaimer informing customers of the risk of a service that makes no promises of financial return?
Informing of risks is fine and I would encourage it. There is a huge difference between informing of risk and calling a business a scam.
I seriously doubt any of the cloud mining provider had any idea of the mining software improvements reached in just a few weeks. In fact, I know that most if not all of them payed huge money for custom GPU mining software just weeks ago that now hold no advantage at all over the latest releases open source software.
If anything the software developers if the closed source software scanned the cluus mining resellers.
Not sure how long you’ve been around mining but its the same with every new algorithm. There is a period of time where miners become optimized.
So yes, they could have had an idea that would happen as its happened before going all the way back to Bitcoin.
I disagree Zcash developers themselves though the equihash algorithm would be CPU only, and if you look at Ethereum GPU speeds have been largely uniform since launch.
Though even if they had an idea that is not something you can rest your business model on unless you want to take on massive risk.
Personally I own a medium sized contract with zeropond and while I may not ROI I feel strongly that @tim_olson and co. Are going above and beyond to make sure their customers get the most our of their product with hash rate increase at 16x over initial contract and a 4 X duration increase.
Not what I would call a scam.
And no. I have zero affiliation with the zeropond team in any respect including not being able affiliate or personal friend.
In fact I run my own mining operation and directly compete with their hash rate so it would be in my best interest to see all cloud mining go “tits up” so to speak.
There was some optimization with regards to Ethereum but not on the same scale. You make a fair point about the developers so I’ll just say fair enough and move on. I still think Genesis has about as much credibility as a pay day lender or a bad used car salesman.
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I can’t speak to Genesis mining. I do however agree that their continued sale of obviously non-ROI contracts post launch is not really reconcilable with good faith but that’s on them.
all genesis mining is good for is spam, after receiving 100’s of spams from them on youtube over the last few weeks, it is clear they are pathetic
good products dont need spam to sell
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I think the only time in history that cloud mining was profitable was if you bought in at Oct 2013 (BTC around $150) and which peaked in Jan 2014 (BTC around $1000).
However you could of just saved yourself the trouble and bought BTC directly instead.
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There are 1000s of people that have ROI’d with Bitmain’s cloud mining. But in principle you are mostly correct. That however does not mean a service is a scam.
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IF anyone with a zcash cloud mining contract does get ROI, it means the rest of us who have our own rigs get Loads and Loads of profit over ROI
I dont even know why this thread is still open
this guy lost, his kids will starve cause he was ignorant and that is the end of it… survival of the fittest gets rid of this kind… thats nature… thats evolution…
before genesis block, everyone was complaining that DIY rigs at home wont stand a chance against cloud miners cause cloud miners will have superior mining software
now, after genesis the cloud miners are complaining that they dont stand a chance against the current difficulty cause their contracts were based on outdated software
who in their right mind would invest in a cloud mining contract while miners are still being developed
it just doesnt make any sense…
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I’m not sure you understand that concept of ROI.
Return On Investment???
you wanna give me a new definition? re-write the dictionary?
Im a finance major, i understand ROI buddy
ok so you want a positive return on your investment
they wont get it
these people will be lucky to get their money bac
i guess you should say theuy want a positive ROI which they will never get
even a NEGATIVE ROI is an ROI… right?
so even if someone gains 1 cent on a 7500$ investment its an ROI isn’t it?
ROI in its basic sense would mean that you return anything on the investment…
positive ROI means profit
negative ROI means loss
basic ROI would be breakeven
no?
did i miss somehtintg???
so buddy OP will get an ROI, just not positive and no where near even a breakeven ROI, he will get a negative ROI,… but your right he will get an ROI… some of his investment will return