Toomim Bros GPU mining software and cloud mining

Hey guys,

I agree with mostly everyone here. Of course, noone wants a stupid lawsuit, but if that’s what it will get down to, I’ll join the class.

We all purchased your contracts as a speculation to be there from the first moment, that did not happen and results are still unstable. I paid ~ 3 BTC = ~ $2,100 for a 3 month tiny 36 sol/s contract. Now, two days later, I can get that same power from a XFX 470 4gb that’s on sale at Best Buy this week for $199.

So yes, given the fact that you did not deliver from the start, this was a misleading investment. I would like a full refund, I am happy to transfer you all zcash that were mined through you back and even point some of my current 200 sol/s your way if you want the sol back.

Now that I got this off my chest - I understand you guys want to focus on getting everything sorted out first. I understand you don’t want to make promises here only because people pressure you right now. Hope you guys get everything sorted out in the next 24 hours and that then, you guys will do the right thing → Offer a refund to the people that want it.

I am inclined to agree with this. I purchased a substantial long term (12month) contract from @jtoomim , under the impression that the H/s metric would be upgraded as technology upgraded, and was simply a first day proxy for a certain amount of GPU. And I wired the money, didn’t pay with BTC. I don’t see any formal contract that I signed, and the terms listed above in the thread referred to the original auction, not the purchase I made. Now if the H/s I purchased (200) was actually delivered, from day 1, then I think although I would continued to feel deceived, I’m not sure I would seek recourse.

But since the hash rate wasn’t delivered, and for many customers it still seems to be quite buggy, and the fact that “All sales are final” is really insufficient protection given the implied terms of the contract were not filled by the service provider — well, they have a technical obligation to their customers to remedy the technical flaws that reduced purchased mining capacity, which it looks like there is some willingness to do so. But I think there is also a moral obligation to fix the severe customer unhappiness and errors in the positioning…if only for their long term reputation. If they have what they say they do, extremely cheap power, then they have a long term business hosting mining rigs for people.

I haven’t posted much yet or contacted @jtoomim directly as I know he his overwhelmed at this point and don’t think this is the time to discuss refunds, but I myself would prefer either a full refund what I consider to be a full breach of contract, simply on the grounds because they sold something they were technically unable to deliver, regardless of terms—all of their posts here show evidence that they didn’t/couldn’t test their service adequately in advance to reliably sell it, or a substantial revision to the long term hashrate being delivered to both make up for the loss in the first day spike, and the moral outrage of being sold something that wasn’t actually what I got (in the near term and in the long term).

I think we should hold off on any pending legal action or pressure before we know what exactly the terms. @jtoomim I would highly recommend you avoid trying to spend time to figure out an “exact calculation” of what was lost. From a customer standpoint, that doesn’t make up for the stress and still makes it look like you aren’t in the business of serving your customers and making sure they are happy with your service long term. Now you may not care to be in that business, or it may not be consistent with your personality, but you ARE in that business—and as a marketer, I can assure you, that over-optimizing just makes your concern look more selfish instead of openly apologizing, being flexible with making customers happy, and generally not trying to nickel and dime your way to a solution to this.

Good luck on solving the technical issues and I’ll await announcement via email what your proposals are. Personally, I think offers of significant partial cash refunds, substantial overdelivery, or changes to implied contract power are due. If you help your customers make money, you have a long term business. If you seek to position yourself as simply a counterparty to an “objective agreement that was entered to without coercion” as you have in the past (which now of course needs to be remedied due to failure to deliver), you’re going to just incite more rage.

-Alex

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Flypool appears to be down as of a few minutes ago. They are not sending us notify messages on stratum.

Edit: They’re back up now.

Edit2: Glitching again at 11:18am.

Edit3: Better, a couple minutes later.

We are currently providing 6700 to 7300 Sol/s to our customers. The total ordered hashrate (including the 3x bonus to the auction winners) is around 3900 Sol/s.

According to our records, we currently have 7 customers who received fewer hashes (as measured in completed stratum jobs) averaged over the last 30 minutes than they ordered. Four of those do not have any pool information entered in. (This includes @eastwind_ja.) The other three all ordered 1 H/s.

Over the last 6 hours, the only customers who have received less hashrate than they ordered are the four who are missing pool information.

We had some severe hashrate allocation issues yesterday and last night. Early yesterday, we had a few utility monsters in our midst. For example, our allocator (boss) was giving one customer spikes of up to 3700 H/s (see screenshot below) instead of the 700 s/he had ordered, and another was getting spikes of 1200 H/s instead of 200 H/s. I didn’t notice this for several hours.

This screenshot was sent to us from one of our customers. When asked if I could post it, he said “Sure - I’d prefer my identity stay private though. But if nobody believes you or something just let me know & I’ll jump on the thread to verify.”

Once I noticed this bug, I quickly live-edited in a hack/fix to prevent it from happening. As is often the case with emergency fixes, this emergency fix was itself broken. It would work perfectly for around 5 to 10 minutes, but eventually would allocate an equal amount of hashrate to each order, regardless of the order size. This meant that any orders (not users) smaller than around 60 H/s were getting overcompensated, and orders larger than 60 H/s were undercompensated. I didn’t realize it was doing this until the next morning. Once I noticed the problem, I applied an emergency fix of killing the boss every 5 minutes. This emergency fix actually seems to be working pretty well so far. I hope it continues to hold until we can fix it all properly.

If it helps, I am located in Washington state, the same as Toomin Bros. farm. I even know where they are located.

@cascadiacrypto, do you (or does anyone else nearby) have any USB PCIE risers? We just received a ton of new GPUs, but our shipment of risers from China got delayed, so we haven’t been able to plug them in.

(This shortage of risers did not cause the issues we had at launch. We are currently getting 7200 Sol/s with just the gear we had mining Ether before.)

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Apologies can be used in a legal case to prove wrongdoing - that’s a good reason for nobody to apologize to anyone for technical mistakes on a contractual agreement.

Which is silly. I’ve decided the amounts here are not large enough for
legal action to be worth anything even if you could get someone to take
your case. And this is coming from someone who purchased 5 digits worth of
hashpower. See what Toomim Bros. comes up with as a solution to their mass
customer disappointment, but anyone who thinks an apology is worth much
here is delusional because as much as I’d like to think so, there is no
practical legal action here that really makes sense. Aggregate values
just aren’t that high-- and even if you COULD quantify a loss, it would be
in ZEC not presumed cash-value even if thats what you want to believe you
would have done with a working day 1 hashrate. And just do the math on the
aggregate value of hashrate they didn’t generate on day 1 even if you
presumed all earned zcash were sold at the average days value — would be
lucky if the true economic harm was even in the low 5 digits across all
customers. Just not worth it. Let’s see what Toomim Concern is willing to
do to support their ongoing reputation.

Just wanted to say that I appreciate all the hard work @jtoomim - my hash rates are well above what I ordered. Not a lot of customers are saying it, but once I get the compensation for the downtime, I’ll be pretty satisfied with the level of service you have provided.

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@RandomLetter +1 Yes me too, that was supposed to be the general subtext of
my post(s) but i didn’t really say it out loud I don’t think. I know they
are working hard on delivering although a first day fail isn’t something to
really ignore either, but they seem to have invested for the long term by
relocating to a place with extremely cheap power and putting real money in
the ground there, so thats why I think everyone needs to just calm down and
form a nice wait-and-see pattern. I’m getting rates well-above what I
ordered as well, though haven’t quite figured out parity yet between what
genesis has delievered in total vs toomim (though some of their bugs have
positively impacted my hashrate as well as negatively).

But presumably, if you were on this forum and willing to invest in a
contract to mine zcash with full knowledge of the slow-start and volatile
price action, your goal is to accumulate zcash in the longterm. Now granted
that is not necessarily inconsistent with selling at astronomical prices,
but if you’re thinking long term then you want Toomim to succeed (because
you can ship them your mining rigs and take advantage of their super cheap
power and facility at some point) and you also want to see them want to
want to make customers happy–which doesn’t happen if their customers act
and think cuckoo.

We have a big box of risers (one of the Achilles Heels of GPU mining rigs as you probably know) which we ordered from China 3 months ago. Most are going to be used as we are expanding into a new facility. The ones not used will be spares so unfortunately we can’t sell them to you.

There is a guy up in Everett who gets pallets of them sent direct from China via Port of Tacoma.

If you do right by your customers, I’ll link you two up.

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Gensis mining is a total fk rip off 60H/s for $2200 fk that id rather build me a rig for that much and have 150 to 200H/s and also have the opportunity to mine other coins when they come out.

Also Tom cloud a serious rip off too

Order size:
250
H/s(250 Sol/s)
Order duration:
Price:16.2500 BTC

fking dream on. If I was offering cloud mining contracts I would be doing a lot less and more affordable and reasonable by the miner for community. Only thing I see here is a 100000% rip of in the works and people getting shafted guaranteed.

Order size:
30
H/s(30 Sol/s)
Order duration:
Price:1.9500 BTC

That is about the speed of your average 390 or 480 card depending on how configured and I have an old 280x running at 35H/s fraction of the costs.

I understand you got energy bills to pay but blatantly ripping the customer off is a no go for me. Make your own conclusions up people.

2 Likes

Exactly! Could not have said it better

Some Pro Tips:
0. Don’t buy cloud mining hashpower for a coin that hasn’t launched/doesn’t have a working blockchain yet.

  1. Don’t buy cloud mining hashpower for a new PoW algo i.e. before public, open source CPU & GPU miner SW has existed & been optimized for at least 3 months.
  2. Don’t buy cloud mining hashpower unless/until the coin has a reasonable volume & stable price on multiple exchanges (<±5% per day).
  3. Don’t buy cloud mining hashpower until the network difficulty has stabilized (<±5% a day)
  4. Don’t buy cloud mining hashpower unless/until you are 100% sure there won’t be a miner tech transition during your contract (CPU->GPU, GPU->ASIC, 28 nm ASIC->14nm ASIC, etc).
  5. Don’t buy cloud mining hashpower unless you understand the costs of its production, and the probable profit margin you are paying to its provider.
  6. Don’t buy cloud mining hashpower unless the block reward will be constant throughout the contract.
  7. Don’t buy cloud mining hashpower without a written contract which clearly describes the exact compensation (if any) for downtime. The seller should gladly provide this upfront as it’s standard practice in the computing/ telco industry. It’s just delusional to assume that a complex system will have 100% uptime.
    TLDR: Don’t buy cloud mining hashpower. The seller probably has a huge informational advantage over you.
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Everything you say is true. Issue is Toomim reputation, generally a bad business model to not make your customers profitable. Apple is one of the most successful companies why? Because they look after their customers.

Dear Toomim, I have send multiple emails with a BTC address and transaction ID to orders@toom.im. So far I havent gotten any response, can you please look into it? Because I believe something went wrong with the order form on your website.

I insisit on refund , in the email ,Toomim admitted the bad lanuch service ,but reject refund . what he is doing is very bad for his reputation

They don’t care about their reputation anymore. They got 7000Sol/s right now correct? That means they got 700BTC from Cloud mining which is $500,000 in free money.

How much money do you think they made with their simple Bitcoin hosting company? Probably not much. There really is no money anymore in hosting miners. All miners are hosted in China these days. This is probably a one or two man operation. Hence when miners crash in the middle of the night there is nobody to reboot them because the owner is sleeping.

$500,000 is probably 10-20x their regular business revenue, THEY ARE RETIRING AFTER THIS…

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Damn boy you’re a crybaby… please stop trashing this thread.
We all lost money in the first days but now we have 3-6-12 months to recoup our investment.
This will work out just fine. Toomim bros are pro.

If you guys break-even I will eat my own hair…

1 Like

What did you mean with that?
I believe I was a action winner to :wink:
And did not get that…

Second… Many people here over react a little.
I believe that they do what they can to get everything alright and we just wait what they offer to compensate the late mining.
Zeropond hat problems to, I believe…
I bought to for mining at the start and it did not happen and that was really sh… and disapointed.
But that the gpu and cpu mining getting better is a risk we all take at that moment.