Don’t buy anything from not-registered individuals or syndicates. You can file a suit for damages against Genesis Mining, but it’s difficult to find this fraud bros to sue. We have photos, so not impossible, but very difficult.
Real Toomim LLC, registered in Washington State, USA.
Owned by Jonathan Toomim and Michael Toomim.
We are overdelivering on our contracts except for the 96 hours at the beginning, during which we had technical difficulties. We are compensating our customers for that initial downtime. There is no fraud here, just a witchhunt.
you are honest and the fact that you reply to everyone shows that you actually care about them
genesis mining doesnt do that… they just spam and spam and ignore people
keep it up and stay positive!
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If only you had auctioned Watt/second instead of the highly unpredictable sols/s, you’d have a lot less garbage thrown out over you after your first day problems. I wouldn’t be surprised if you are actually currently overdelivering sols to get to about to same Watt/s as you auctioned at with the software you had at the time, but if you don’t, it might help to calm down the angry mob a little bit.
Your 40sols miner probably used a lot less juice than today’s optiminer or Claymore, it’s actually quite an important factor in this whole discussion about fairness.
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Bottom line, is this Toomim Bros is not a company you want to deal with, he’s made it quite clear that you are in a trading adversirial relationship, If you win he loses, if he wins you lose. Consider that, ZeroPond just upped there hash rate by 4x today.
Jonathon made the point correctly that it was an auction and we set the price, tough luck if its too high.
Problem is this he also promised to deliver, he did not deliver on the contract. I give a shit if he’s trying to make it up; The deal was for 100 sol/s from T0, he did not deliver, end of argument.
Since the relationship is so cut and dried to this guy. LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR>
I PAID FOR 100 sol/s FROM T0. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS.
HE DID NOT DELIVER!
NOTHING IN THE IMPLIED CONTRACT SAYS HE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE JUDGE JURY ON THIS MATTER.
A SIMPLE REFUND ON T1 WOULD HAVE SUFFICED
Issue is this if had got 100 sol/s at T0, I would have got what .25 ZEC which I could have sold at what Price?
Toomim you can’t have it both ways, gee its a contract, you failed to deliver, its not up to you to now interpret the contract in a way which clearly benefits you, its called fraud.
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The fundamental problem with Toomim’s company is that he is not aligned with his customers. He did not create a business that is win-win, but one where he is making a large profit while his customers are losing massively.
Zeropond set a profit margin up front and promised to upgrade hashpower as much as possible during entirety of contract. Much better incentives. Very happy I choose them.
Toomin, whether or not you can legally fuck your customers over is irrelevant. You don’t get far in life by fucking over your customers. You should restructure all contracts such that your interests and incentives are aligned. So you are working for and with your customers, instead of against.
that or fractions of GPU usage. which i guess is hte same as watt/second. I think they could really re-work their selling strategy to save the future of their business
but with that point your watt/second is probably better way of doing it, more fair
nice fork of silentarmy V5 genoil! glad to see that V6 should get a windows version quickly from you
Zeropond just increased their customers’ hash rate 4x for both their genesis and Dec contracts solely based on adopting tech improvements that they did not develop…working with their customers and doing what is “right” - no skin off their back and not being selfish about the increased gains.
Conversely It’s so easy for Toomim to just say “a hash is hash…that’s what I sold, blah blah” when all he is sayin is “I’m a selfish prick that has no obligation to my customers apart from the contract regardless of the unknowns including the tech that I did not produce” It would be the “right” thing to do to adopt the public miner and increase everyone’s hash rate…but he’s just a prick like that and has no sense of customer satisfaction even with his so called 2x avg voluntary increase! So we are stuck this prick oozing gonnorhea. I’m disgusted…
It’s generous of Zeropond (and Toomim for that matter) to increase their customers hashrate but it is still very difficult to judge whether that’s only generous, or perhaps just about fair, or actually only a marginal loss to them.
If cloud mining ops want to become more transparent and less of a risk investment towards their customers, especially on coins that don’t have optimized mining algo’s yet (!!!), it would be better to sell Joules (Watt-second) instead of hashes. By doing this, you eliminate most volatility of the coin and you make a deal in the most stable variable in this whole mining business and therefore the very existance of these cloud mining ops: electricity price. That is what these companies deal in: electricity. Not coins.
Of course there would still be variables like which hardware is used and which mining software, but these aren’t volatile and moreover, verifiable by anyone.
So, say that Toomim’s 40sols/s miner had used 200J (no we could never verify this, but we also couldn’t verify he could actually deliver 40H per 290, so that doesn’t matter) and we had bought a 500J (or 100 sols/s) contract, how would that look today? I don’t have all numbers handy, but let’s assume the latest miner churns out 150 sols/s at about 250J. So with your 500J contract, you’d get 300sols/s, a threefold increase (note the numbers are just made up for the example).
I’m not so involved with power usage at all, but there must be somebody around here who could could run a comparison between SA v1 (also around 40sols/s) and the latest miners for power usage. I wouldn’t be surprised at if you would come near that 3-4 fold increase in sols/s per Joule. Twice seems very low to me, so I kind of wonder how much juice the Toominer pulled.
This approach still doesn’t solve any liability issues on service downtime, although it might be a bit easier to hide behind having put so much Joules into the GPUs and not taking responsibility for what comes out at the end 
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You can’t calculate joules that easily, Claymores miner on earlier versions for example would hash better on older cards vs newer ones and it’s currently doing better on newer (lower TDP) cards with headroom for more (IMHO).
Total joules would depend on total system usage and maxing out the motherboard (7+GPUs per) with lower end cpus, cheap motherboards and running off a usb stick.
Note: People calculate based on what the GPU is worth, not the infrastructure needed, additional components (CPU/MOBO/PSU/RAM/Disk space), electricity, downtime or man hours.
While I dislike Toomim Bros stance, all participants knew exactly what they were going to get.
I personally invested in various methods to mine ZEC but I knew the risk involved.
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I got some Amazon AWS instance reserved for 1 year (they will never ROI)
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I then invested in a Toomim Bro competitor (I most probably won’t ROI on that either, unless I hodl the coins and sell later when I break even, if ever).
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Invested in my own hardware and setup some Rigs (prior to launch).
I also have a plan 4 (will wait for this one)
- buy coins when miners are losing money on electricity.
I would of been better off just waiting and buying rigs now , but that is the risk you take on speculating.
For those wanting to profit off the increased price / slow start… unless you had a private miner doing what Claymores miner is doing now and solo-mining with AWS instances (again with increased H/s miner) you wouldn’t make much.
This is coming from a person that has been active and testing all iterations of software and options to mine Zec from the first zcashd releases.
Just My 0.5 Zec
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As you are aware, we had some technical problems during launch. I promised to compensate our customers with at least 100% of the missed revenue, and said that I would give the specifics later. The time has come for the specifics. First, the overview:
We will compensate you all with 20x the amount of ZEC that you would have received in the first 96 hours if everything had gone perfectly.
Now, the details.
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We promised that our hashrate would start on October 28th. Although our contracts did not specify a block number or a time, we are starting our compensation calculation at block 1.
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For our auction customers, we said that we would deliver 3x the hashrate that our customers paid for. While this is not part of our contracts, we will still honor it. We are including that 3x multiplier in our compensation package for auction customers.
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Due to the rapid block rates of the first 2 hours, orphan rates were significant, and would have caused a real miner’s revenue to be less than the theoretical amount. For our calculation, we assumed an orphan rate of 0%.
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We provided some bursts of hashrate to some of our customers on Oct 28th and on Oct 29th, and we provided between 50% and 500% of each customer’s target hashrate on Oct 30th and Oct 31st. For our compensation calculation, we will ignore all hashrate that we actually delivered during the first 96 hours. Our customers will be compensated with 20x the amount of ZEC they would have earned in the first 96 hours in addition to whatever hashrate they actually received during that time.
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We have been significantly overdelivering on hashrate since Oct 31st. Even with the downtime, our customers have received an average of 66% more hashes since Oct 28th than we said we would deliver. We are giving that extra hashrate to you for free, and our compensation package is in addition to that.
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During the first day, several pools (especially Suprnova) had technical glitches and performance problems. Many were rejecting perfectly valid shares, either due to misconfiguration or due to DoS attacks or scaling issues. Our compensation calculation is based on what would have happened if the pools had all been working perfectly.
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Several customers had entered in their pool information incorrectly, such as by omitting a worker name with Suprnova. We will compensate all of our customers as if they had working pool information as of block 1.
I calculated that an ideal miner with 1 H/s would have earned a total of 0.0017693052 ZEC in the first 96 hours that mining was possible. We will give our customers 20x that, or 0.0353861040 ZEC for each 1 H/s that we promised. A customer who ordered 100 H/s from us should have earned about 0.177 ZEC during the first 96 hours; we will give them 3.54 ZEC. (We reserve the right to round up.)
Note that as of block 10182 (current as of this message), an ideal miner with 1 H/s that was active since block 1 should have earned a total of 0.0042193534 ZEC. Even before our compensation package and with all the downtime, our actual customers have already earned more than that, typically around 0.0048 ZEC, due to our hashrate overdelivery. Our compensation package is in addition to that, which means that a 1 H/s miner will have received 0.04022623742 ZEC once they get our compensation, or roughly 8.3x as much.
If you wish to review my revenue estimates, you can find the source code at http://toom.im/files/estimator.py.
Compensation payments will be made within two weeks. We will collect Zcash addresses of customers via our website, on a page that we will build soon for the purpose. Do not send us Zcash addresses via email, as anyone can easily spoof an email address to steal a customer’s payment.
The two days of mostly-downtime on Zcash launch was by far the worst service outage we have had in our existence. We try to hold ourselves to a higher standard of service. That’s why we’re not just compensating our customers with 100% of the ZEC they would have earned. Even though we did not have a service level agreement in place, we still think we should overcompensate for any downtime. Given the prominence and severity of our launch problems, we felt that 10x was an appropriate overcompensation multiplier for this instance. Since we’re already overdelivering at 2x, we decided to bump it up to 20x total.
May the hashes be with you,
Jonathan
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i BET YOUR CUSTOMERS WILL STILL RECEIVE THE SAME HASHRATE AFTER THIS COMPENSATION OF YOURS.
WHAT A RIP OFF.
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Thanks.
From my site, I appreciate that.
And please if your not a customor, go troll somewhere else…
This seems fair but what would make it more fair is to linearly increase everyone’s hashrate to go along.
Joules is the SI standard of measuring work (in physics), and since mining is proof of work, there is no better unit to consistently measure it.
(sorry for the interruption, you can continue asking for refunds now)
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It’s also the SI unit for waste heat, which is the actual sense it’s being used in here. The work accomplished here is measured in solutions or hashes, not in terms of how much we increase the average energy of the nearby molecules of air.
The use of joues or watts as the unit of sale gives rise to perverse incentives. The cloud mining seller (me) should not be rewarded for being inefficient. The unit of sale should provide me with as much of an incentive to improve my efficiency as possible.
That said, I enjoyed reading your comments.
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Joules /= Sol/s
Current V5.0 is using less power and giving more Sol/s vs previous V3.1 etc
Anyways I pay my bills in EUR for kWh 
(sorry for the interruption, you can continue asking for refunds now, talking about lambos/ferraris etc etc)
I think this on the right track but my initial reaction was why not buy old power hungry cards?
If the (Sol/s)/Joule ratio was kept constant presumably that would have the desired effect but can you imagine trying to sell contracts based on the Sol/s / Joule ratio! 
Interesting discussion though.
Try selling a RX480 for $600 (markup for other costs included ) 
the backlash would be sick…
you got robbed man
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