Zcash confirmed not fork ASIC?

https://www.ccn.com/zcash-governance-panel-votes-against-prioritizing-asic-resistance/

is that REAL news???

Old news and zcash foundation != zcash company

Could you tell me their relationship??
Zcash foundation and Zcash community ???

ZCash foundation:

A 501©3 non-profit, dedicated to building Internet payment and privacy infrastructure for the public good, primarily serving the users of the Zcash protocol and blockchain.

Zcash CO = Zcash COMPANY not community

Zcash company runs the show. The foundation looks over it.

General information:
Zcash foundation receives more ZEC per month than the company (slightly more)

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Thanks for your information!!! :slight_smile:

so up up to this moment,
hard fork to avoid ASIC is not confirmed yet???

As Monero and Bitcon Gold confirmed they will hard fork to avoid ASIC already.

Zcash informed that the first “availble slot” for an asic fork would be april 2019.
Zcash foundation will be investing time, money and resources on reasearching an ASIC friendly enviroment (with or without limitations), potential fork end of 2020.

More information will come in august and september :slight_smile:

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@lubu More information about how any potential change to the PoW would fit into the ZcashCo roadmap: What happened at the Zcon0 mining workshop (and more...)

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ASIC resistance is a waste of resources.
Let’s consider, every time a more efficient vehicle is built, we make it illegal to license.

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Typical naive pro-ASIC argument…

You are confusing efficient with useful.

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Absolutely no confusion. Consider the application and why you would use a GPU when an ASIC can perform the same task, faster, and consume less energy. This is technology that will bring us into to future. Your GPU is undoubtably more useful for a wider variety of tasks, however, it was maingly engineered as a Graphics Processing Unit. GRAPHICS. Not mining.

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If you look at it in a vacuum by comparing one ASIC to multiple GPU rigs they consume less power. However, ASIC’s being cheaper and using less electricity means people can buy more of them to make their capital investment back and pretty much negates most if not all power savings. That is why most ASIC’s are unprofitable now even after electricity costs. I can’t name any GPU-only coins that are unprofitable after electricity costs. Not everything in this world needs to be the most efficient it can be, It depends on the application.

However, ASIC’s being cheaper and using less electricity means people can buy more of them to make their capital investment back and pretty much negates most if not all power savings.

ASICs increase the risk involved for all miners (large and small). Miners have to commit to a specific algorithm. With greater risk comes the potential of greater reward. This gives smaller miners the opportunity to have 14x the hashpower of a 1080ti and it also gives medium and larger farms the opportunity to decrease their electrical usage (largest cost).

In terms of profitability and higher difficulty, both of these create an incentive for the price to increase:

If profitability is low, miners want to sell the zec they mine for higher.
If the difficulty is higher, zec becomes more rare, which causes them to become more valuable. Miners usually hold more when the difficulty increases because of this expected price increase.

We all want the price of zec to increase but when GPU mining is “consistently profitable”, the network is no longer forcing the price to increase. Miners need to occasionally feel the squeeze to continue monetary gains that outpace the inflation caused by new zec issuance.

The goal of a development team shouldn’t be to make any miner group happy in a centrally planned way. The economics of mining should handle that by default. If mining isn’t profitable, some will drop out. That’s the way it’s always been from the beginning of BTC mining.

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You make some good points but ASIC vs GPU is different from CPU vs. GPU in that an ASIC is nearly worthless after about 6 months while CPU’s and GPU’s can be repurposed and used for years. You can have the same ZEC scarcity with GPU’s as well. If the profitability of mining goes up on a GPU mined coin then people will buy them and cause the supply to go down. If someone can’t mine the coin then they must buy it and GPU’s have more uses so there are more people in the market to buy them. Most all of these side arguments would be irrelevant if the price of the coin were high. Ethereum did fine on price while it was only GPU mined. Bitcoin’s price did well when it was GPU mined. Trying to create artificial scarcity to drive a coin price upwards isn’t as good as the technology and usability driving the coin price upwards.

You could argue that Bitcoin is only worth more now because it is more scarce, but I think there are more reasons than that.

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You always can sell GPU to a gamer (who couldn’t afford it when that GPU was on the top of the profit) and buy a new one.

And ASIC… can you try to eat it? Run a game on it? Work/render in Blender or Maya or 3D Max? Would you coldblooded sell it by lying to someone that it’s still profitable (oh, yeah, and therefore you sell it, haha)? Or just throw your ASIC away when it’s profitability gone? Whatever… Those are rhetoric questions! Don’t answer me, answer yourself when time’d come.

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This is why the risk is increased? I don’t see your point. ASICs give more hashes for less energy usage while losing adaptability. It’s a trade off just like any other computational problem.

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I don’t see your point.
I’ve noticed. But how can I help if you don’t see a problem? Explain more? Ok… as you wish.

ASIC’s are dead end, end of decentralization betraying the core idea of crypto-currency:

  1. Mining turns into the large companies prerogative (manufacturers of ASICs — first of all);

  2. Mining becomes impossible in countries where it is publicly or secretly persecuted. At the same time — these countries need crypto-currency, as a basis for future freedom. You can explain to the authorities why you need a video card, but you can’t even try to explain why you need ASIC;

  3. Bitmain sells ONLY used ASICs: they ALREADY got the cost price + 100% of profit by mining, and getting more actually selling ASICs after;

  4. ASICs redouble the race of capacities, which makes the energy costs higher and higher, that less and less optimal for maintaining the blockchain. Yes, at first it seems like ASICs are more productive and consume less electricity, they have more sol/watt… and then the difficulty of the network growing by 100-1000-… times, and the electricity costs for its maintenance become inadequate-huge. Once it was possible to mine 1 BTC/day on 1x NVidia GT 8800 GPU, now calculation of 1 BTC costs 8000+ dollars (just for electricity)! Within years ASICs transform any blockchaing into an electro-parasite of a giant scale…

  5. ASICs betray crypto-currencies into the of Chinese manufacturers hands, and in the long term, a year or two (for any currency vulnerable for ASICs), this is the end for private mining: mining of an ASIC-attacked coin becomes an exclusively corporate matter, as an ordinary person simply can not afford a hangar clogged up by ASICs and renting an entire power plant. But for companies like Bitmain who, I repeat, using ASICs they manifactured for mining before start selling them, mining costs ZERO $. This kills decentralization, turning cryptocurrency into regular money: only governments/banks/mega-corporations can “print” them (and it costs ZERO for them too 'cause people giving them money through taxes), and this, in turn, kills the idea of ​​crypto-currency in principle;

  6. already said it in previous message

I’ve not voiced points from the 1 to 5 'cause I thought it was obvious. But, I see, DEVs denial has reached an unprecedented scale.
Admit that DEVs just sold out ZEC to China (to Bitmain). Of course, after denial, anger, bidding and humility … we will wait. Or we’ll not.

P.S.
Sorry for poor language: English isn’t my native…

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@Schroedinger

I agree with your overall conclusion.

I don’t think Bitmain premines very much because the profit margins on the products they sell are likely 500% or more. It really doesn’t make sense for them to mine with them to earn a few bucks per day, when they can invest resources into making more of them and selling for profit.

Think about it: If you had a shovel that cost you $1 to buy and you found a sucker who was willing to buy millions of them for $5, why would you even bother trying to use the shovel yourself? You would just focus on getting as many of them as possible to sell to the fool! This is exactly what Bitmain does.

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F L A W L E S S /s


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Just logic and common sense for such a big company like bitmain. For smaller asic producers this might not be valid. The SIA guy and asic producer (forgot the name of their asics) shared in his offer/proposal that they would keep 20% of the miners for selfmining.

P.S.: First time i agree with you, is even worth a heart :smile:

Well, if you don’t belive me just look at equihash diff chart and compare dates: diff dramatically rose before Bitmain started to sell that ASIC. So they definitely started to mine on their own at first and started selling only after. They doesn’t premine very much but they definitely got 100% of new ASICs productional costs before sells started