ZOMG meeting minutes 10-26-2021

Most recent ZOMG Dashboard:

ZOMG Google Meet Meeting: October 26, 2021

[Minutes taken by Danika]

Meeting minutes:


  • Hudson Jameson

  • Shawn

  • ML_Sudo

  • Chris Burniske

  • Holmes Wilson

  • Alex Bornstein acting as ZF resource

  • Dan Wolande acting as ZF resource

  • Danika Delano acting as notetaker


Zcash Thorchain Bridge

  • Context: ZF provided ZOMG with 3 anonymous developer’s (from ZF and ECC) input on the Thorchain grant prior to the meeting
  • ML brought up that the biggest development is from ECC and ZF devs, but she can’t square the feedback with each other; they are back to square one. Shawn pointed out that the last feedback was the most long-winded and was not sure if they are core devs; no one got to the details; it’s a mixed bag. Holmes observed that there were positive things mixed in with negative comments and some concerns are things that are already or could be a part of the proposal; they said the hourly rate is fine; one said that the 3 month timeline is too short but they didn’t understand that they have already hired the people; it’s a funny mix because they are doing a quick take at it and haven’t been in conversations.
  • Hudson said he is convinced that enough people want it and it would be valuable to be implemented; there is enough excitement about it; as far as the budget, there was an idea of putting out an RFP for a counterproposal. Chris replied that the applicant needs an answer by Friday and a RFP would push them beyond a workable timeline; he has been playing around with Zcash wallets and Unstoppable is way better than Nighthawk in terms of usability; Nighthawk is kind of buggy, for example the seed pops up then goes away; Unstoppable is higher quality ; Nighthawk is valuable and if ZOMG puts out a competing RFP, ZOMG would need to apologize to Nighthawk and they might lose them even if they don’t get a better bid. Hudson said he is okay with putting out an RFP as it would make him feel better about the price.
  • Holmes brought up that all current developers are aware of the forum thread and there have been enough budget questions that it’s signaling to other teams to write another proposal and no one has. Hudson postulated that maybe people are too nice to compete. ML didn’t think that was a reason they wouldn’t submit. Homes brought up a time when there were competing grants in the past. Holmes said that he thinks if there was someone that could do it for 10X cheaper, someone would have shown up and done it already. Shawn pointed out the last comment in the thread which was offering to do work and Holmes suggested they reach out to see if they are serious.
  • Shawn voiced that they should make a decision to move forward on this current grant; if they decide to not approve then they should move to a different process then reach out to others but it’s not appropriate to reach out until ZOMG gives a final decision; since we’re (ZOMG) at an impasse, moving to RFP seems like a reasonable way to do it; hopefully we won’t lose Nighthawk as a dev team altogether; I’m not sure if they have hired their whole team; we won’t know the answer unless we put it out there.
  • Hudson asked if the consensus is to move to an RFP.
  • Chris voiced that it could be useful to get people to vote; he is okay with approving; it’s important enough to get it out there; it feels like they have been judicious with ZEC funds and this is a needed use case, the questions are about the costs; if ZOMG is not willing to lose one of the best dev teams to find another deal, it’s probably worth approving.
  • Holmes threw out the idea: when there is a question about the best approach to take, it’s a good idea to do the top 3 options; if, at some point, you learn one is better, then you put the others on pause; so we can still put out an RFP. Shawn asked for clarification. Holmes explained that they can invite others to put their hat in the ring; they can fund 2 integrations. Hudson agreed that there can be multiple zcash integrations. ML stated that it would be silly to build 2 bridges when there is 0 liquidity.
  • Hudson brought up that it is already in the proposal that we have milestones; the new ZOMG can inspect and have new insight on it when they evaluate milestones. Holmes agreed that the trenches get released over time. ML asked, if we can’t figure it out at the beginning, then how will the future ZOMG evaluate milestones? Hudson explained that the new ZOMG candidates are mostly devs.
  • ML brought up their previously agreed upon scaling voting structure. ML summarized that Hudson, Chris, and Holmes are supportive of approving the grant, Shawn and herself are a no (overpriced but is supportive of putting out an RFP).
  • Chris asked Dan to create a RFP and Alex agreed that they would work together on completing it quickly. Shawn offered to send links to a Thorchain Discord to help with the scope of work.
  • Chris said he is happy to respond to Aditya (the primary developer of Nighthawk) on the forum as he feels a responsibility to thank them and apologize for the drawn out response; in his opinion they should have put out an RFP a month ago and not strung them out if that was their ultimate decision. ML added that it’s nuanced and Nighthawk has been given multiple opportunities to step down on pricing or explain themselves better; it’s not quite the same as a VC stringing along a startup that is trying to raise capital. Chris stated that they should leave the grants page as is since they are not rejecting or accepting at this time.
  • Holmes voiced that he thought they are making a serious mistake on this; their (ZOMG’s) primary concern is cost and the responses from ZF and ECC were mixed but all said price was appropriate, none of them are saying we are being milked for the funds; the people that have opinions don’t have as big a stake in the decision as ZOMG.
  • ML disagreed with Holmes’ interpretation of the feedback from ZF and ECC, she believed the 1st one said it’s a lot of money and it’s hard to say if the scope is reasonable but the hourly rate is about median wage.
  • Chris pointed out that they don’t need specific deliverables; it is one of the bigger grants but it works for the ends that we’ve (ZOMG) stated with further integrating Zcash into the broader ecosystem; we don’t want to disincentivize Nighthawk to working with ZOMG. Holmes agreed that the comments were on the value of the deliverable, they say it’s a lot of money for something they don’t see as valuable… but we (ZOMG) see it as valuable; maybe we should go back to the experts and see what they mean. ML added that there is disagreement about the scope of work about bitfrost.
  • Shawn commented that ZOMG is pinning a lot of weight on 3 respondents and their input is only part of the decision making. Homes brought up that they don’t have a way to evaluate professional insights of people responding on the form and the reason why they went to 3 people at ECC and ZF is that they come pre-vetted; we needed solid ground to rest decisions on and got ambiguous feedback but they can resolve it by going back to the people and asking solid questions. ML agreed that they don’t just need email answers, but input that helps ZOMG come up with an answer.
  • Shawn advocated for a hard vote at the current meeting. Holmes said that they should try to get responses from experts in 2 days with numbered questions and vote before Friday; if they are in the same place then or decide to decline, they can do a RFP. Shawn pointed out that they have already scoped out the work with Zooko and their team. Dan asked for specific questions from ZOMG and added that he can’t promise the experts from ZF and ECC will get back to him before Friday but he will do his best. All members agreed to wait until Friday to respond on the forum.

Cake Technologies Zcash Mobile Wallet Design & Development

  • Hudson initially thought that the application said that one of the requirements is a Thorchain and Shawn clarified that it was going to be a feature and he doesn’t think it’s a showstopper. Hudson also pointed out that the application said it would be 6 months for 4 full time developers but they listed 5 developers; there are good questions on the forum and he agreed that they should make a more detailed milestone breakdown. Shawn agreed that they didn’t include a breakdown. ML said she likes Shawn’s questions on the forum. Shawn said they should give it some time. All members agreed.
  • Hudson pointed out that SDK could affect the hours; he likes it; cakewallet is growing.

The meeting ended 15 minutes earlier than scheduled and the following discussion occurred via Signal chat:

Social Media Promotion for ZCash

  • Shawn brought up on the Signal chat that they didn’t officially vote on the social media grant during the meeting. Hudson wrote that he voted no because it’s $5K for a lot of Instagram followers. Shawn also voted no.