What Monero FUD are you referring to? ASICs? Why would a specialized piece of hardware mining amount to “Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt”?
@artkor do you have any evidence of ASICs on Monero since they changed thier algorithm or is that just speculation?
RandomX was specifically designed to thwart ASICs and its use has led to a significant uptick in mining both in terms of hashrate securing the network and the number of individuals being onboarded. Many in the Monero community support this rather egalitarian model for mining on commodity hardware and I suspect some would be disenchanted if ASICs were being used in secret.
Changing mining algorithms and/or securing the blockchain through ASICs holds certain risks. Zooko stated that, “When we lost GPU miners we lost a huge amount of users — about 90% of our users at the time.” (https://twitter.com/zooko/status/1428368816526925833 )
I answered everything on twitter in PM. But I’ll duplicate it here:
@kowalabearhugs:
“ Hello, Do you have any evidence to support your claim that there are RandomX ASICs mining Monero?
I’m sincerely curious. I’m a supporter of both Zcash and Monero.“
@artkor:
“ Hey! No. I have no proof, I just mined Monero for a very long time, and I understand the hashrate graph. I have a fairly powerful CPU with 12 core, but it is not profitability today at all. When this happens, people leave mining. But the hashrate continues to grow. Moreover, we understand that the tricky features that used to be, such as CoinHive, are no longer available today. Therefore, I conclude that someone has developed ASICs only for themselves and is unlikely to brag about it, knowing the policy of Monero.”
@kowalabearhugs:
“Well that’s disappointing. You said you’re “more than sure”, but you have no evidence to support your claim apart from your experience as a Monero miner. I too mine Monero and the profit margin didn’t matter because I’m able to utilize free electricity at work and at home. I suspect many others do the same due to the ease of mining on CPUs.
It’s ironic that you’re spreading FUD about Monero in a Zcash thread aimed at addressing FUD around Zcash“
@artkor:
“ asic development costs good money, but makes sense because it pays off. When the last time the Manufacturer tried to sell them, there was a change in the algorithm. Therefore, no one will admit anything to you and will not give evidence. Just look at the hashrate chart, its jumps. I was mining Monero on two rigs with 12xVEGA64 video cards, like many others. But the current hashrate only on CPUs is 3 times higher than then. Ok, I actually have nothing to prove. I’m still confident, that’s all.
And yes, after reading these reddit threads, I will no longer pretend to be friends with Monero community.“
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I wrote this information on the Zcash forum, but you immediately showed up here. Should I post this on all the monero forums with a detailed explanation of the hashrate chart? I can happily do it.
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With the cost of designing an asic being around million usd, I find it difficult to make one and not sell units. Maybe we are seeing FPGA or mining pools shifting their hashrates.
If the asics is powerful, you can still benefit by producing just enough units to control ~20% of hashrate. With a market cap of ~$3B and annual inflation of ~1%, controlling ~20% of hashrate means you can scoop up ~$6M per year in mining reward.
This is also a possible scenario especially with the situation across the US border.
@kowalabearhugs continues to insist:
Ok:
It is impossible to create an ASIC-resistant algorithm in long-term. This is the same as saying that an algorithm written by a program cannot be made hardware. This is nonsense!
In fact, I’m doing the great favor for Monero-community. Because if I’m right, then Monero’s network is in great danger and centralization. Someone has great advantages, but after he was forced to reassemble the integrated circuits three times, he, for a completely understandable reason, decided not to show up anymore.
But if you continue to be sure that I am wrong. Well, good luck to you!
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I hear what you are saying @artkor but to be fair to @kowalabearhugs you’d want to normalise that chart over the mining reward convert to a tradition currency (e.g. USD).
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Actually, it’s not that easy to do. Because in different periods of time different combinations were involved in mining: only CPU, CPU + GPU, CPU + GPU + ASICs and the ratio of one to the other is impossible to identify.
This graph can show approximately the situation separately for the CPU, but due to the change of algorithms, it will still be incorrect - https://bitinfocharts.com/ru/comparison/monero-mining_profitability.html#log&alltime
But, what I have presented is already enough to understand that after switching to Random X the comparable hashrate has increased 4 times, which is with a decrease in profitability is raises questions (the issue has decreased almost 3 times during this time and this year it will reach a target value of 0.6 per block forever). You can say that people mine at work, but it’s always been like this. Before RandomiX too. On the contrary, recently the antivirus programs built into Windows have become much tougher about mining. Hidden mining has become impossible at all. It became impossible to infect sites - which was a common practice until 2019. The lion’s share of the Monero hashrate was brought by the hidden miner CoinHive - now it does not exist. Yes, people are heavily involved in mining, this is also a fact, but the question of expediency of costs always makes sense. Otherwise, it is easier to spend this money on buying coins from the exchange. In addition, there are much more profitable coins for the CPU, why go in crooked ways?
However, we had a good chat with @kowalabearhugs. And he even asked me to report it to the XMR community. However, I would not like to do this, because I am afraid that it will be perceived as an aggressive attack. On my reddit, the logo and nickname indicate “Zcash”. To be honest, all these feuds depress me. If my assumptions are useful to someone, I don’t mind anyone using it.
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I think this makes sense…
If in this diagram the graph after switching to Random X is shifted up by the size of the gap (highlighted in red), then the profitability in dollars per Khash/s will be comparable:
UPD I didn’t take into account the logarithm in the first version.
As we can see from this graph, the increase in the price of the coin compensates for the increase in the hashrate.
Its much more ironic that as a holder of monero (as well as Zcash 
) you came here to complain about FUD spread about monero but dont have anything to add to conversation about monero bros spreading unsubstantiated FUD and lies about Zcash for years… address that first!
We know your game! We know your tactics!
@JRGB I publicly stated that I support and hold both Zcash and Monero. They have different approaches and, I feel, slightly different goals. Do I have issues with Zcash and the community? Absolutely. Do I have issues with Monero and that community? I most certainly do.
Kindly refrain personal attacks. My post was asking for evidence for a claim that was put for by a member of the community. I do the exact same thing when presented with a claim by someone in the Monero community, or anyone for that matter. I will admit to having spent more time interacting with the Monero community and that is primarily due to the fact that appears to be a bit larger user base on the social media services and forums that I utilize.
Is there any specific FUD that you would like me address? I think @Rucknium had some great suggestions: Zcash has a FUD problem - #36 by Rucknium
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Criticism is healthy. Echo chambers are the antithesis of growth. I welcome anyone to challenge my beliefs.
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I am curious to hear what issues you have with monero and the community? Would you care to expand? As you yourself admit you havnt interacted very much with the Zcash community. Can you share the issues you have with the community? and why?
Ye very much so…
- What are your thoughts on the claim that Zcash has a backdoor
- What do you think about the claim that Zcash is a government funded enterprise
- What is your view of the claim that Zcash having optional privacy therefore makes the shielded part of Zcash less private
Constuctive criticism is healthy. That is not the type of criticism ive seen from monero cultists.
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At the end of the day, we’re all trying for the same thing. Multiple privacy coins can work together and share ideas. I want private money, I don’t care about whose team is better.
Just my 2 zats.
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@kowalabearhugs I would appreciate if you would respond to my post…