The Genesis Mining disclosure was more descriptive:
“Zcash is still an experimental technology. We are working on a GPU miner, so in theory it’s possible that we are not able to deliver the promised hashrate. If we are not able to deliver the promised hashrate two weeks after expected Zcash mining start (28th of October 2016), you will be eligible for a full refund. But we are very confident that we will deliver in time so that you can start mining from day 1, with the best possible algorithm available, and perhaps even with a higher hashrate than currently advertised.”
The problem is that The Toomim Bros Ltd. did not define what delivery meant in a legally satisfying way, and instead mentioned that no refunds would be given.
Customers who purchased hashpower have defined delivery as: Mining Zcash consistently at purchased hashpower from the immediate release of v1.0.0.
The Toomim Ltd. has defined it as: delivering the total hash power purchased within the timeframe specified.
The problem is that Zcash difficulty and exchange price fluctuates quickly. Speculation had made Zcash worth much more from the start and as time increases the difficulty increases (complicated with the slow start). Many users were attempting to take advantage of early mining to make a profit from early speculation. After the slow start is over, returns for a given hashpower will slowly diminish making earlier mining more profitable. This means that a flurry of 1000 Sol/s at the end to “catch up” may not be comparable to a steady 500 Sol/s hash throughout the entire time period depending on if the difficulty more than doubles during that timeframe.
The Genesis Mining disclosure was more descriptive: …
If we are not able to deliver the promised hashrate two weeks after expected Zcash mining start (28th of October 2016), you will be eligible for a full refund.
Agreed, their terms on this matter were much clearer than ours. I wish I had written that, but I didn’t. Oh well.
The Toomim Ltd. has defined it as: delivering the total hash power purchased within the timeframe specified.
I think that this definition is valid for the website orders, since the website calculated the total number of hashes for a contract and specified that on the order screen. For the auction orders, I think the argument could go either way.
This means that a flurry of 1000 Sol/s at the end to “catch up” may not be comparable to a steady 500 Sol/s hash throughout the entire time period depending on if the difficulty more than doubles during that timeframe.
Agreed. I intend to compensate with both. We will be delivering the total number of hashes and also providing our customers with the ZEC that they would have earned had we been online with a consistent (e.g.) 500 Sol/s from day one.
I did not buy initially with the intention of having random bursts that would eventually equate to something resembling what was promised. How is it that you don’t understand that? I don’t care about your intentions - because I did and I got nothing on launch day which is when it mattered.
It seems that you are being intentionally obtuse because I seriously don’t believe that someone who has admitted earlier in this thread that he did fail can be so delusional.
“We will be delivering the total number of hashes”
Thats the main problem, “will be” and “already are”…
All you do is talk nonsense.
Absolutely ignoring, what people are telling you.
Your greed has no limit.
As i already said, you fckd up, big time.
You bought a lot of gpu’s, using customers money.
You already imagined how you are swimming in a pool of money.
And bam, you fcd up.
So take responsobility for it.
Refund, the users, that asking for a refund.
Stop acting, as though you are not seing proposals for a refund.
“We will be delivering the total number of hashes”
Thats the main problem, “will be” and “already are”…
We already are delivering more hashes per hour to most of our customers than they had ordered. There are a couple who are getting slightly less than they had ordered, but the majority (who generally are not complaining about it) are getting more than they ordered.
We will also deliver the total number of hashes for the contract within the contract’s time limit. We can’t deliver 90 days of hashing in 3 days, though, so it’s not reasonable to ask us to have it done by now.
In addition to that, we will be giving our customers a one-time direct payment of ZEC (or possibly BTC) to cover the amount that they would have earned over the first few days if our service had been perfect.
This is in breach of the contract. You should provide hashes, not ZEC - that is a big difference and you are discounting the real economic value your customers were looking for in the first place.
I agree that the value should be calculated as an approximation of the potential gains selling for bitcoin and be refunded in bitcoin, the currency the service was paid with as an actual refund for broken promises and financial damages caused by it.
I am not discounting it. I haven’t done the math needed to calculate what that real economic value is yet, so I haven’t promised it yet. I would be interested in seeing anybody else’s calculations on what that real economic value is. I know it will be highly dependent on the assumptions made for building the model, so it’s not a calculation that can be made quickly and simply. However, I am open to doing this, as long as we can agree on a reasonable mathematical model.
When I said “(or possibly BTC)”, the above is what I meant – the real economic value that would have been gained from mining if we had performed our service perfectly from day 0.
Please refund.,Don’t cheat yourself. I never asked refund before the launch. I ask for refund when you Failed to fillfull hashrate. When I Only get an average of 3H/S 1.5 days after the lunch,I cleared my order, and stopped Getting hashrate from you.
People felt cheated, no hash delivered on day1 where it matters most (3000BTC/1zec), second, there are better mining software coming out, which makes people feel that they pay too much for these very low hashes that makes them feel more cheated. Never do business that you are not sure of. Never fck up on the first day of work if you don’t want to get fired on that very same day.
please refund ,no excuse, you have failed fullfill the hashrate from the start. Please keep your words: Refunds Nope. After the auction is complete, we will not do refunds unless we have difficulty fulfilling the hashpower contract. Bid with that in mind
We pushed a couple of changes in our hashrate allocation algorithm about an hour ago. This should make the hashrate less variable and also a lot fairer.
if [quote=“jtoomim, post:829, topic:2080, full:true”]
I have not made a decision to refund you. If you choose to remove your pool information, you will not get any hashrate either.
If you have your pool information online, it will not affect our decision of whether or not to refund you.
If we do issue refunds, we will not ask for any mined ZEC back from you or anyone else.
[/quote]
you know that any one that continue get hashrate from you will give you an excuse,