ZCASH is fully AML and KYC compliant, yet gets delisted?

So far all i see boring topics from governance side but not a single topic on where foundation is trying to lobby regulators to start accepting zcash as KYC and AML compliant…
https://z.cash/compliance/#:~:text=Zcash%20is%20fully%20compatible%20with,’%20Anti-Money%20Laundering%20regulations.
we seem to boast about that but no one is moving a finger to do something about it…

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Zcash is accepted as compliant in the US and most other jurisdictions. Just because everything isn’t reported or shared (as is necessary in this type of work), doesn’t mean significant work doesn’t occur. It’s an essential element of our focus and work at ECC.

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and? why don’t you expand more in details what exactly being done as “significant” work as you say… then why shapeshift delisted? and may be there is nothing really to report or share cause there’s not much being done?

ShapeShift was not forced to delist because of regulations. Coinbase, Gemini, Binance, Kraken… all support Zcash in full compliance with US regs. Coinbase just launched a new earn campaign that reinforces that message. Gemini recently added support for shielded withdrawals.

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Of course it was forced, why would they delist something as you mentioned fully compliant in US… well i guess what you are not understanding is i don’t see any media response or even follow up to articles like that… liquid Singapore was forced due to regulation, just as Okex still reviewing, then UK arm of coinbase, what about upbit of korea? Are you just going to mention a few exchanges that have listed and avoid questions like as though everything is fine? I asked what is exactly you are doing to prevent or get them convinced to relist. What about marketing efforts to actually push more articles or videos to educate regulators? Are you going to avoid by giving standard answers again? Really? As a VP i expected more from someone off your stature… i guess that’s what does having non obligatory salary paid… All this standard answer for the miner tax we miners pay to you as salary?

If you want to ask serious questions, I’m happy to answer. If you want to mud sling, I’ll spend my time elsewhere.

I gave you a true answer about ShapeShift with as much detail as I am able to share.

Liquid was not forced, it chose not to apply as they were forced to reapply for everything. MAS confirmed that there was nothing preventing Liquid from applying for the listing and MAS have not given us any indication that it would be an issue.

OKEX is specific to Korea, which is a concern. We are considering engaging with an attorney as we have done in Japan. This is a complicated and sensitive matter that largely hinges on concern with money laundering and N. Korea.

The UK arm of Coinbase is due to their banker, Clearbank. There are a couple potential paths here. There are no regulatory issues in the UK.

There are a number of active educational initiatives and meetings in the US with various people / agencies - some in partnership with the Blockchain Association and others. We also work closely with Coin Center and Perkins Coie. We cannot share all of the details of those conversations as many are confidential and/or sensitive in nature. I would like to begin to share more details, more regularly, as we are able.

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that was a serious question at least to me or else i wouldn’t have wasted my time here… you just chose to brush them off as non-serious at first. I’m not mud slinging unless you are being too sensitive here. As an investor and a miner with substantial amount of money put in I believe I’m not the only one who is concerned with this. So far we may see a few delisting here and there that you might find tolerant but time to come this will become very serious and too late by then. All i asked was what exactly was being done to remedy or prevent that and you finally after being asked over and over explained in some detail about the root causes and at some level what was being done. At the very least its what i expected in your first response. You see I’m alright with XMR and Dash being delisted because they are truly trashy in every sense, i’m not into cypherfunk crap. I even own some for speculative reasons but zcash is something that truly stands out from all the privacy centric coins and i just wish you guys step up and keep that image in the eyes of regulators… they need to understand privacy sometimes is not always for crime purpose… all i wish is for this coin to be accepted as something private for legitimate purposes and not shady stuff like xmr is being used for. Won’t bother you again.

I believe that zcash was excluded and will be excluded not because it does not meet the law, but because the leaders of the exchange believe that zec can cause them problems (when obtaining a license or additional attention from the authorities). Decision 1) Get a document in each jurisdiction that this will not happen (I think it is possible in the most active countries) 2) Change the reputation of ZCASH (not possible, because the opinion on the part of the exchanges will change for a long time and then turning it back on is not always possible. 3) The exchange volume should bring big money to the exchanges (now it is cents and the risk is not worth the profit)

I’m gonna butt in here with a little outside “civilian” user perspective.

We are globally at a point of many possible government regime changes. Most in positions of great power are being extra cautious for self-preservation because nobody knows for sure which way the pendulum will swing. That means not taking risky positions on new policy.

Also, it can take at least a generation for new ideas to become normalized for the masses. We have been sitting here since the beginning so it seems like a long time. We want to see more progress. Delistings seem like very bad news because there are not that many listings to begin with. Yes, delistings are bad news.

But there is also the longer term possibility that once global affairs become a bit more settled, regulators will feel safe enough in their positions to take higher risk decisions in areas that do not seem so pressing to resolve now. It’s always faster, easier & cheaper to just say no.

People are just now getting used to the idea of national or global stable coins, CBDCs etc. People often need to go through the first steps of new paradigms to truly grasp the inherent flaws in the initial iterations. Like, how many perceive btc v zec re: privacy etc.

People, the general population, won’t understand the magnitude of importance of privacy in these transactions until they are educated directly by experiencing the flaws of running everything with transparency. Then the things we see as obvious will become readily apparent to them through the lessons of experience. Policy change is usually generated as a response to a large problem. We have gone from no policy to “no you can’t do that”. But these are just the first steps. Bureaucracy is tragically slow.

Once regulators are required to deal with a significant magnitude of negative occurrences due to lack of privacy in financial arenas, it may become more “safe” for them to take a pro-privacy stance on these things. It’s a matter of time. The global economy is one match stick away from a worldwide dumpster fire that will make 2008 look like a smoke signal.

As for the businesses who delisted though regulation did not require them to do so, my best guess is it was a financial decision. Sometimes businesses choose to discontinue offering products, not because the product is flawed or undesirable, but because ultimately that’s how the business math works in their favor. I can’t see inside ShapeShift but looking through a product retail lens, it seems like a business decision to avoid an expensive paperwork nightmare. That is my unsubstantiated guess from the outside.

This doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck to lose money if you have lost money due to these things. It just means that working to turn the tides of a very conservative & scared global political climate takes a lot of time & a lot of work, similar to how overnight fame that looks instant to the audience really takes decades of unseen labor to produce.

It would be faster & more efficient if the ”new paradigm” could just exist on its own terms instead of being retrofitted into legacy institutions but this is where we are in the general journey of the industry. But it will change because the only constant in life is change.

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@joshs I feel confident in speaking for the greater Zcash community when I say that these efforts are certainly appreciated :zebra: :heart:

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I think you have to understand that shapeshift is a dying company, they lost the plot a long time ago and their R&D seems bad. Erik Voorhess 's crypto keepkey wallet don’t support $ZEC despite Erik being a Zcash investor.
Don’t bother with sapeshift too much, use sideshift.ai they are real crypto faithful and stewarts !

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I like Erik, and I’m rooting for Shapeshift. Non-custodial exchanges are hugely important.

Erik is rooting for ZEC and I know this is painful for him. There are powerful forces at work, and this is a high stakes game. There are some in this space that are here for easy money. There are some in this space that are putting it all on the line. Erik is the latter and will take bullets and misunderstanding in support of our freedom. Crypto twitter and the crypto press are two inches deep. You won’t get the complete story from either, and they sell Erik short for the sake of a headline.

I was a wrestler in my youth. I learned to disregard the arms and leg movement of my opponent. Though they moved the most, they were often a false signal. Instead, I learned to watch and sense the movement of the torso - the core of the man on the other side. That movement didn’t lie. It couldn’t. A single exchange that delists is arms and legs. It’s movement, but not the story. A singular action at a point in time doesn’t mean that an exchange lost the plot. It may mean something entirely different, something much more significant than easily perceived by the activity at the surface.

I hope that we can appreciate this collective struggle that we’re in together - for the sake of our collective freedom, in the spirit of winning over those yet to see our common purpose, and only against those whose wish to suppress our freedom for their own exploits, power and gain. @zecretary was eloquent in their response and spot on - this is a moment in time, and a step in the journey toward the world we are, hand-in-hand, creating for the financial freedom of the generations to come.

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This is so much important to be aware of.
(Nothing against Erik, I just removed the references because what you say here applies to all cases). Thanks for the required work you guys provide. Must be tough not to have more support simply because it doesn’t bring as much glitters as most people want.

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I think excluding all private coins: Zcash, Monero and Dash (what this coin does on this list I don’t know) and then adding Zcash back it is what Voorhees may do to help Zcash. And this will cause much less complaints than just delisting for example XMR.

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Wealth Simple is IIROC and MFDA registered and has Zcash… Why are you spamming anything you can find that casts doubt on Zcash meeting regulatory requirements when it is acknowledged by the highest authorities in Canada and the United States of America.

Have you heard of the country known as Canada?

We are a member of the five eyes, do you know about the security standards that Canadians adhear to?

Or are you just spamming doubt, because this type of post makes you come off unresearched and unable to handle googling or duckduckgo-ing common financial practises…

This time Korea, very liquid market… what country next?

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@zcash This trend could give top quality privacy coins the Bergdorf Goodman affect tho.
They were genius marketers.
Superior quality. Limited availability. Air of exclusivity.
People always want what they can’t have, what is forbidden or is a symbol of special access or status.

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