How to make black markets adopt ZCash?


#1

Black markets are underrated and the social stigma around them is unwarranted. ZCash is about financial freedom and this is exactly what black markets are about too. At core they allow individuals to undergo peaceful and voluntary transactions. Moreover, they are the ideal niche market for a currency-attempt because the fact that the goods exchanged are “illegal” (not necessarily immoral) justify the high-friction use of a crypto-currency like ZCash (in its current form: slow finality, potentially high fees etc.)

I don’t know much about modern dark-net markets but I remember Silk road. I am curious to hear your thoughts on the issue. In particular, we should focus on:

  1. Market research: what are the largest online black markets?

  2. Usage: what crypto-currencies are these markets using and why?

  3. Solving: how can we “convince” them to switch to ZCash?


#2

Privacy is a fundamental property of sound money. I’m against people using Zcash to break their local laws unless they are in an oppressive dictatorship where freedom and life are prevented through financial controls. Cryptocurrencies are opt-in, but we shouldn’t be actively courting those groups.


#3

Monero is the Nr 1 there.
Atleast after transactions were to expensive in Bitcoin, you bought 10 Dollar coke and had to pay 20 bucks for the Bitcoin transaction. Friends allready posted the shit after 3 comf just to satisfy the customers, most of them switched to Monero half of dec 2017 when Bitcoin was way to expensive on the network.

We don’t want that to be Zcash, it will give a crackdown, why ? O look, it’s the laundry coin.
Goverments don’t like coins like Zcash, with a T adres ok, with a Z 1, nah, only child abusers and terrorist use that ( Nice frame ey ? )


#4

Like with locking mining-rewards for one year? …

Currently Monero is the Bitcoin of privacy coins. It has the longest track record of being untrackable. So alot of people use that. I belive monero was one of the first privacy coins that took off and kinda had that going for it.


#5

Like with locking mining-rewards for one year? …

First, I’m talking about a government. Second, the discussion was about a gradual release of mining rewards. Lets keep that topic to the correct thread.


#6

“unless they are in an oppressive dictatorship where freedom and life are prevented through financial controls.

No you were talking about people having influence over your finances with “controls”. And yet you are infavor the time-locking of miners "finances ". These seems very hypocritical.

Dictator decides to lock money = bad.
“Votes” decides to lock money = good.

Just because it was “voted” for , does not mean it wont have huge impact of the freedom of someones money. this could be a life or death issues in some countries having to wait 1 year to get the money they have worked for.

And the discussion was about Black Market coins, and I answered his question and was on topic. Speaking of which.

Also MONERO so far has proven to be the “communities” coin, they have listened to the user base on important issues and created forks to alleviate the problems that the “majority” agreed with. Zcash has some great tech, but it still has alot to prove compared to the track record of monero.


#7

Moral monism is a disease. What you consider to be the line for oppressive is not universal and definitive. Tentative currencies like ZCash are definitionally subversive and this is in an aspect that should be embraced in my opinion. The fact that most governments will punish people that freely choose to undergo peaceful and voluntary transactions is a sham. Just because it doesn’t meet your timid (and typically western) definition of abuse doesn’t mean it isn’t.

If ZCash is to become a currency, it has to step on some toes. Financial freedom means Freedom with a capital F, not some watered-down, passive, and blurry concept that you can write about in blog posts. It is fundamentally performative: can you or can you not?


#8

If you live in fear of government repression then you walk a fine line that will eventually become so narrow that it will empty the motto financial freedom from all of its meaning. As far as I know, entities like DFS know that ZCash will eventually be used to launder money and participate to black markets. That’s right now by far the most compelling use-case of ZCash (economically). Black markets don’t mind the high-friction that a cryptocurrency brings because the customers expect to pay a premium to evade state scrutiny anyway.

I don’t know how I could prove that but I am convinced that the Silk Road was instrumental into bringing Bitcoin closer to “currency” status. Black market adoption does more than any ETFs or derivative instruments allowed by the powers that be.

Black market adoption legitimize the use of an alternative currency because it caters exactly to those things the State is trying to interfere with. A currency that enables free trade is a currency that has a meaning and that will grow off that network effect.


#9

It keeps normal people away form Cryptho, because of the frame.
My parents were against Bitcoin, why ?
Only childabusers, terrorist and other people who have things to hide use Bitcoin.
It took me some time to tell the real story about Cryptho, but he, it was on the news, so it must be true.

I have / had several friends who are deep into selling Drugs all around the world, believe me, they only send post to countries where isn’t a dictator in power. Nr 3 countries ? USA, Australia and Germany.

The blackmarkets on the darkweb aren’t for normal people trying too buy a bread to survive, they are for Hipsters in the first world, who now have acces to Drugs they otherwise wouldn’t aquire.
Guns, Stolen CC, DDos Attacks. So in my opinion it’s not a blackmarket people attend to survive in their normal day by day live.

And Zcash isn’t the most compelling in that regard, none of my friends accepts Zcash, Monero and Bitcoin ( some Bitcoin Cash ) they accept, if bitcoin once again get sllow and expensive, it will be Monero only.


#10

It will be watered down, why ?
Zcash has his base in the States, your own goverment will break it down.

I agree with where youre coming from, but in the real world we all know how it will work out.
You have to have a gateway to exchange the Zcash back to Fiat at a point, if there are no exchanges , supporting Zcash, you can’t.
Then you will be like the blackmarket peeps here during ww2, they sold eggs for gold, and in the end realized the couldn’t eat from that.

Maybe you should define what you mean with a blackmarket, since you mentioned Silkroad, Guess that’s not the best example of a blackmarket.


#11

The USD is the most used currency for illegal activities. Might want to let your parents know so they can avoid using it. That doesnt make sense does it? Same for Bitcoin.

The “its used for illegal things” isnt a very good argument to not use it. Glad they were able to understand, Bitcoin in itself isnt bad.

Maybe next bullrun, they will feel sad when they didnt take your insert internet monies here coin, that has mooooned. But who am I kidding, im a HODLER , I would give them “real” money, I would use USD!


#12

I know :wink:
And they don’t use Dollars, since we don’t have them.
So Yes, before Bitcoin all shit here was also in local currency.

It’s the frame the media use, Bitcoin rises, all silent, Bitcoin crashes and it’s all over the news.
Bitcoin here in Europe still has the Child abuser, terrorist mark, even paying with Cash is allready strange, why you pay in cash ? where is that money coming form ( In the States it’s even worse if you pay cash, must be a drugdealer )

Next Bullrunn, Bitcoin will be in front I guess, I don’t feel sorry for them, they made / make enough :wink:


#13

Solciting or promoting services that may be considered illegal in the United States is violation of the Zcash Community Forum Code of Conduct.

https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/faq

Please do not:

  • Post solicitations for or about services considered illegal in the United States.

#14