ZEC/ZCash will die, ZClassic is here now

Since Zclassic is a fork of Zcash it does have a place on the forums although I do not agree with the premise of the OP.

It’s quite a stretch to claim that Zclassic will replace Zcash since everyone knows that Zclassic is (currently) completely dependant on Zcash for development and improvements to the protocol. Zcash continues to work with the inventors and scientists who built the Zerocash and Zerocoin protocols and is continuing to fix bugs in Zcash as we speak.

You can follow the Zcash teams progress here Milestones - zcash/zcash · GitHub

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they do have their own forum… have you even looked in to ZClassic?[quote=“Shawn, post:21, topic:8147”]
It’s quite a stretch to claim that Zclassic will replace Zcash since everyone knows that Zclassic is (currently) completely dependant on Zcash for development and improvements to the protocol.
[/quote]

and I think shawn is right, there really can’t be a ZClassic without ZCash

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I avoid shit coin knockoffs like ETC and ZCL for the same reason I don’t buy fake Rolex watches: Because Quality (Dev Team) matters. It may look and behave like the real thing its trying to copy but there is no real value to it because of who made it, how it was made and the trust in the quality of the real product.

There’s a reason Rolex forums crack down on scammers selling fake Rolex watches…

Imagine this thread on a Rolex forum:

“Rolex Watch Company will DIE, FAKE Rolex’s Are OUT NOW!”

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well in reality ZCash made ZClassic as it is a fork of ZClassic and it is really the same thing with 2 parts removed. I’m just trying to say maybe you shoud not dump on things without checking them out first, it is just a little ignorant

some of your arguments against ZClassifc have been flat out wrong … such as
not being able to trust their trusted set up - their trusted set up was ZCash’s trusted set up, so its zooko and team you need to trust… and I could probably go on and ont about other false claims but i need to get some sleep

I understand if you dont like it, but you should give really honest reasons for not liking it and not just what you “think”

Many coins are a fork of Bitcoin but Satoshi Nakamoto did not create them.

So no, ZCash as in ZCash Electric Coin company did NOT create ZClassic. To claim otherwise is an outright lie.

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in a way ZCash did create anything that comes out of ZCash, at least they laid the foundation for any forks that happen

you have really lied about ZClassic
i dont think i am lying when i state the above, that an opinion
but what you said about ZClassic was not, it was a lie

Maybe you should go spam elsewhere? This is the ZCash forum not the ZClassic forum. It’s also rude to say someone is dead if they are very much alive.

@cryptomined @cascadiacrypto I appreciate the passion but tone it down a bit.

We should take the same outlook as Zooko, relax, sit down and have a beer with the Zclassic guys.

https://twitter.com/HeyRhett/status/796628615790215169

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@crosswire

:joy:
:joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:
:joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:

YMMD !!!

yes I do take the time to read about things before I speak about them unlike some people… I saw that photo and included at the very start of my video, I also mentioned a few quotes from zooko in regards to ZClassic. If Zooko is ok with ZClassic so am I. If people want to only mine ZCash, thats fine with me too, but I dont think that creighton deserves lies huirled at him in regards to what he did.

who created ZClassic is just a matter or perspective - ZCash and ZClassic both have the same starting block… who created that block in essence created both ZCash and ZClassic.

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Please explain Zcash’s trusted peers in a way that shows Zclassic is able to leech off the same peers or does not need their own or already has their own.

go ask creighton or zooko, im just stating that ZClassic did not do the trusted set up, ZCash did and ZClassic forked off of the chain after that… so not really any need to “Trust” ZClassic developers IMHO…, at least not in the same way we need to trust zooko and team… we need to trust zooko and team if we use ZCash or ZClassic - he could hold the keys to both.

we could really say that ZCash leeched from Bitcoin, because it really is bitcoin with anonymity added in
but no one is crying foul on that one… if people dont like copies or altcoins than just stick to Bitcoin, its pretty simple…

how much bitcoin code is in ZCash code? i read about it somewhere but totally forget now

maybe shawn can chime in on that one

“trusted” is an anathema to 1/3 the point of cryptocurrencies. (Network fungiibility and limit on coin base being the other 2/3’s)

By “leech” I mean actually using the same computers as nodes. I do not think that is possible, so I’m wondering what peers have they set up if they copied that part. Since it is not a legal company that can be sued like Zcash, why should we trust Zclassic’s man-in-the-middle peers?

Maybe Zcash being a for-profit company instead of completely “open source” is the very reason they can be trusted more: it is a fixed target who’s principles have real liability.

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yeah im not that much of an expert, thats really better answered by creighton or zooko as i mentioned above
sorry cant help much on that

No you’re right. Actually I agree with you on all points of this. I mean, look at mining. There are a only so many GPUs on earth and suddenly far more currency to mine using them.

That’s why I’m on a mission to get me some GPUs.

Cant trust that they didn’t premine though… It’s known that someone mined a ton of ZCL before it was well known how to mine it because you took away the slow start.

Bad news for its long term value.

yet we can not just accuse him of pre-mining - though i “think” that he was open about the time of the fork and the launch. I think he is a pretty honest person.

long term value will be decided by the markets, and it is being picked up instead of shoved aside… so it looks like it will have a bright future… like it or not

it is a great risk mining ZClassic, but that risk could pay off bigtime if it gets picked up by exchanges like polo, kraken, bter or yunbi

risk and reward are highly correlated… thats just finance

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Yup
-Proud owner of 27zcl who wishes he had some more.

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LOL, im considering building another rig just for ZCL so I can keep all my current rigs pointed at ZCash

Hi folks! Rhett seems like a nice guy. I’d ask that people be nicer to each other on this forum. I don’t like to read threads people insulting each other or accusing each other of bad motives. If you want to do that, I’m sure there are plenty of forums where that is the norm. Maybe reddit? Bitcointalk? Whatever, just not here please.

In my ever-so-humble opinion, the Founders’ Reward is really good for Zcash. I even think it might turn out, in a few years, that the Founders’ Reward was Zcash v1’s best feature!

A lot of the criticisms of the Founders’ Reward are sort of “backward-looking”. The criticism is basically that the Founders’ Reward (implicitly viewed as a cost paid by the users of Zcash to pay for the creation of Zcash 1.0) is overpriced. This would be a perfectly valid criticism if the Founders’ Reward were a standard premine, where the money were given to the founders in the first block. (Although you could still quibble about whether it is overpriced or not. Pricing is hard.)

But, the Founders’ Reward is not a premine, and I don’t think of it as (primarily) a reward for previous work. It’s not what users pay for the creation of Zcash v1.0, it is what they pay for the creation of future versions of Zcash over the next 4 years. The reason this is actually a realistic way to think about it is that we, the founders, haven’t gotten any profit out of it yet, not until we start selling it, or using it to pay our bills.

(Which by the way is potentially about to start happening, to some fraction of the ~8600ⓩ that has already been allocated to the Founders’ Reward, soon: Founders' Reward Transfers - Electric Coin Company . I say “some fraction” because that ~8600ⓩ is going to get split up among a large number of investors, and they will probably have a variety of sell-vs-hold decisions. By the way, although Continued Funding and Transparency - Electric Coin Company shows the way the 10% Founders’ Reward pie slice gets sub-sliced, the first distribution of the Founders’ Reward, which is due to happen soon, is going to the investors, because their sub-slice get distributed first.)

So, if everyone were to start valuing ZEC at 0 now, then we will have received 0 from the Founders’ Reward! But the world would still have gained Zcash v1.0. So, by valuing ZEC at greater than 0, you are partially rewarding us for having created Zcash v1.0, but to a much greater extent you’re incentivizing and resourcing us to create future versions of Zcash.

(Hm. I guess we shouldn’t have named it “Founders’ Reward” then, should we have! Should’ve been named “Founders’ Fund”.)

The more highly people value ZEC over the coming months and years, then the more incentives and resources the Zcash Company and the Zcash Foundation will have to improve Zcash. (Not to mention the other Founders — the investors and the individuals — who I hope will be inspired to launch on Zcash-improving projects of their own!)

So, we’ll see how this plays out over the next four years. The worst outcome would be if people value ZEC highly, making the Founders’ Reward/Fund into a rich stream of incentives and resources, but we fuck up and do a bad job of improving the protocol. That might spell the end of the idea of Founders’ Funds!

But, if there is a positive feedback loop where the more improvements we make to Zcash, the more valuable our future stream of rewards is, and the more valuable our future stream of rewards is, the more improvements we make to Zcash, then people will look back on it as having been a great idea.

Anyway, I’m not telling you what to do. Buy or mine ZClassic if that feels right to you.

I’m happy about ZClassic’s existence because it is a fallback in case Zcash implodes (in a way that doesn’t also take out ZClassic). And, it is a semi-independent community, which means it adds a degree of redundancy (which means resilience) to the development effort. (Although they really need help! Rhett has been asking for multiple people to review the merge of Zcash 1.0.2 with ZClassic, and last I checked nobody had done the review. If you’re going to invest some of your time and money into ZClassic, then you should also consider contributing in that way!)

Also because Rhett seems like a relatively nice person, and I value positive interactions with people that I interact with. It makes me happier and makes my life better, and I also believe that it makes for more effective cooperation, and increases our chances of succeeding at our overarching goals of liberating and empowering humanity before it is too late.

People using the ZClassic blockchain have already encountered one bug, and since I was hanging out in the ZClassic Slack, overhearing them talk about it caused me to realize that it might be a serious bug. That kind of thing is really helpful. And, they are talking about doing a stress test on the live ZCL mainnet. Very cool! Would love to see the results of that.

Okay, this has been pretty rambling. Hope I didn’t say anything totally stupid or leave out anything important.

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